R6 (and maybe R5) overheating issue

Wilt wrote in post #19111561
I can certainly understand corporate 'politics', and the need for one business entity to impose performance limits on its products, so as to not cannibalize the product sales of another business entity.

But I cannot understand using 'overheating' -- which apparently starts when just turning on the camera, and not using any video features at all -- as the apparent limiting factor. It just makes the R6/R5 designers and product planning teams to both look like fools, as if it were a design oversight and not a deliberate placement of a performance ceiling on the product (to be a good corporate cousin).

And with all that said you can’t even buy one.

Let me name a few marketing features that are clearly not as featured:

“Fast and Accurate Video Autofocus” for Panasonic GH, S1 series cameras’ DFD, Nikon D7000, the original A7S
No mention of overheating for: countless mirrorless models from Sony and Fujifilm and I’m sure many other companies
“High speed memory cards” and inaccurate read and write speeds listed for every SD, SDXC, SD UHS II when faster standards like SXS, XQD, CF, CFast, CFExpress are already on the market
High FPS cameras with slow memory cards and small camera buffers.
“IBIS for steady and smooth video” Sony, Fujifilm, Nikon, pretty much every camera company other than Panasonic and Canon
“Best in class” autofocus for Nikon Z series, same IBIS and video claims
ProRes Raw recording for Nikon Z6 camera release (which eventually has to be an up charge due to a court case with Red prevailing on licensing vs. Apple)
“Smooth video autofocus” for Fujifilm XT series cameras, countless other mirrorless models.
“Smooth parfocal zooms” for the Sigma 50-100mm T/1.8 and several cheaper consumer cine geared zoom lenses.
“15 stops of dynamic range” every camera company and model without smooth roll off

List could go on.

All are subjective claims.

Claiming 8k with 30 minute limit is an objectively confirmable one.

Most folks don't get to Nurbergring to test their cars with objective timing.

Wilt wrote in post #19111615
All are subjective claims.

Claiming 8k with 30 minute limit is an objectively confirmable one.

ProRes Raw and memory card read and write speed are pretty objective. Smooth parfocal zoom is pretty objective and can be measured. High FPS cameras without giant asterisks on buffer and slow memory cards are pretty objective. IBIS for video is pretty objective. X stops of dynamic range is pretty objective. Overheating on countless mirrorless models before this one with advertised video specs is pretty objective.

My point is that if you want to hold Canon to some biblical standard, you need to hold every other company accountable.

we are not defending our fathers...it is a camera!

Perhaps the literature simply needed to say, "Up to 30 minutes of 8k video (but usually not sustainable)"

Wilt wrote in post #19111615
Most folks don't get to Nurbergring to test their cars with objective timing.

Most folks don’t need need plastered disclaimers on speed duration limits to go along with 0-60 times and torque ratings of their cars, because most people don’t drive their cars that hard and that long. A good driver will know their limits.

idkdc wrote in post #19111570
I think you just have to walk over to the R5 user page where actual users are taking plenty of photos without overheating issues.

Stills shooters are getting heat warn lights when shooting stills...Thats not good and NOT acceptable

umphotography wrote in post #19111623
Stills shooters are getting heat worn lights when shooting stills...Thats not good and NOT acceptable

I would rather have a heat warning light than have the camera shut down without one (*cough* Fuji), but I do understand your perspective if it causes concern (I do see that it could be extremely distracting if it’s on all the time). I think this is something that can be fixed in firmware if it bothers enough people.

Just as an FYI, the Canon C300 Mark III has a heat warning on most of the time, and it’s to just let the filmmaker know that there will be limitations for recording before the fan has to turn on for sound purposes.

Wilt wrote in post #19111619
we are not defending our fathers...it is a camera!

Perhaps the literature simply needed to say, "Up to 30 minutes of 8k video (but usually not sustainable)"

I agree that transparency is better all the time from a moral perspective.

The issue is if your competitor is not held to the same standard, then you are at a disadvantage for sales and market share purposes. You shouldn’t have to fight a marketing fight with one hand tied behind your back and your opponent letting both fists fly.

Sorry for the waxing analogy, but I think that’s the point that I’m trying to make, that Canon is for better and for worse operating in a free market economy where they are muscling for market share to keep the lights on and their investors happy. The only way to prevent this type of lying by omission is to legislate rules on marketing that all companies should equally abide by, but that is difficult with the way that lobbying and corporate donations for political offices works in several countries.

idkdc wrote in post #19111612
Let me name a few marketing features that are clearly not as featured:
.
.
.
List could go on.

You're right, the list could go on.
I'm the proud owner of the top of line crop sensor 7D2 which was advertised as having a killer AF system. Do you think I would have bought it if Canon was honest and said sometimes it works / sometimes it doesn't. I don't think so. Don't put Canon up on a pedestal. They are no better than anyone else. If you don't believe me, are you interested in a lightly used 7D2?

Rod

idkdc wrote in post #19111624
I would rather have a heat warning light than have the camera shut down without one (*cough* Fuji), but I do understand your perspective if it causes concern (I do see that it could be extremely distracting if it’s on all the time). I think this is something that can be fixed in firmware if it bothers enough people.

Just as an FYI, the Canon C300 Mark III has a heat warning on most of the time, and it’s to just let the filmmaker know that there will be limitations for recording before the fan has to turn on for sound purposes.

I really could care less if it has a heat warn light on. All I care about is that the camera does not shut down when I am at a 10 hr wedding....If the light is on the whole darn 10 hrs and it doesnt shut down......Im good

What I am concerned about is that the owners manual states that there will be image degradation when the light is on and shooting stills---what EXACTLTY does that mean. It also says smaller files...what EXACTLY does that mean

This is not acceptable

1Dx2 & 1Dx3 and 5D4 can be left on all day long, no heat warn lights, and no concerns about loss of image quality

Canon still has not given any answers to these concerns for stills shooters and there is no defense for this type of behavior from Canon

My 7D2 was quite good with AF, kept up with animals, people, sports, so with the 7D2, some could do what was advertised. So far not a single R5 can do 30 min of video, and then an hour later do another 30 min, etc. It takes hours to get another 30 minutes. So this is a big different.

No excuse for selling a camera to the public with these concerns not being addressed and resolved

umphotography wrote in post #19111633
No excuse for selling a camera to the public with these concerns not being addressed and resolved

Hosted photo: posted by umphotography in
./showthread.php?p=191​11633&i=i13218955
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

But as others have posted, that same warning is in the 5D4 manual and others too. Not unique (other than wording where the 5D4 says live view (meaning sensor and rear LCD always active)) with the R series.

umphotography wrote in post #19111628
I really could care less if it has a heat warn light on. All I care about is that the camera does not shut down when I am at a 10 hr wedding....If the light is on the whole darn 10 hrs and it doesnt shut down......Im good

What I am concerned about is that the owners manual states that there will be image degradation when the light is on and shooting stills---what EXACTLTY does that mean. It also says smaller files...what EXACTLY does that mean

This is not acceptable

1Dx2 & 1Dx3 and 5D4 can be left on all day long, no heat warn lights, and no concerns about loss of image quality

Canon still has not given any answers to these concerns for stills shooters and there is no defense for this type of behavior from Canon

Like I said, there are plenty of Canon shooters with real world experience accruing in the R5 image thread. You’re better off asking them than reading between the lines on documentation. Again, I don’t like my Fuji cameras not telling me before they shut down (and they shut down a lot earlier than the R5).