Musing on systems: Paul Buff versus Godox

I've been using Buff stuff for close to twenty years now. I've got seven flash units, Alien Bees, White Lightnings, and Einsteins. They're all Cybered-up, and I've got two Cyber Commander controls. I've always been satisfied by their performance and by the company customer service, which I've used more than once when I've screwed something up. The Cyber Commander flash unit is small and fiddly, but there still isn't anything that's close to its control capabilities, particularly with the built-in incident flash meter that correlates all the flash units.

And it's pretty sweet when you call for warranty service and the FedEx guy hands you the new unit as he picks up the old one.

I had been waiting for them to put out something with HSS, however, and directly battery powered. I fully understood that Paul Buff's philosophy was that he made studio flash units. Vagabond was in his eyes just a necessary evil that made them "transportable" but not really "portable." But I had hopes. Then Paul died and it seemed he was the only innovation engine in the company that could have made a significant advance to a truly portable flash system. They've been promising the new Link flash system, but it's not really there yet and it's not really here yet.

In a bit of exasperation, I bought a couple of Godox AD600 units, an AD600Pro, and a couple of AD200 units a bit over a year ago.

As I recently built a residential studio (that I should be able to totter around in for the next few years into my dotage) and re-thought my own photographic direction, I gave a lot of long, hard thought to whether I should go all-Godox and sell all my Buff stuff. That was when the second battery for my AD600 Pro died as suddenly as the first one. Made me think about it more.

My final decision was to go with both systems. My Buff stuff will be in-studio only. I won't even try any longer to make it act like portable gear. I'll sell the AD600Pro. I'll keep the AD600 and AD200 units in location kits for the few times I'll go to a client's home or office (no more street or park shooting for me).

I'm in a similar situation, although I've had no unit failures to make me wonder which way I should go.

I've used Bowens lights for years. Have Gemini Pro 750, 3 Gemini 500 and a 400. When Godox/Flashpoint started upping their game was right when I was thinking about battery power for location shoots.

The Xplor 600 and Streaklights (1 Xplor 600, 2 Streaklight 360lls) were a much better route in my eye, rather than big heavy battery packs. Huge plus was my existing modifiers would work with all of them. I always shoot manual in studio, so the Flashpoint units get hung on higher stands or booms. Their triggers allow me to make adjustments easily while the Bowens units are just a step or 2 away to twist a knob. On location, the Flashpoint's TTL makes setup a breeze, I then convert to manual in the transmitter and just fire away.

All that being said, The build quality of all these units seem quite different, but they all perform flawlessly. No downtime on a single unit. I've had the Bowens lights for over 10 years the flashpoints since 2016.

Now that I put that out there, I'll let you know if the obvious thing happens tomorrow....

Sounds like a solid plan.

I've used Buff in the past (friends system) and it was great. I went all-in with Godox/Flashpoint a few years ago with AD600PRO and AD200's plus a few of the speedlites and have been very happy. No battery problems yet, but they get light use as I'm just a hobbyist. Not sure how I'd feel if I HAD to rely on them to make a living. I definitely have multiple batteries for everything just in case.

PCB will continue to lose market share as batteries get smaller. I think they will be forced to innovate and have a real battery alternative in order to survive. But, customer service is key and they really do have that from everything I've read over the years. This makes for loyal customers... but how far does that loyalty really go without innovation?

FarmerTed1971 wrote in post #19103260
Sounds like a solid plan.

I've used Buff in the past (friends system) and it was great. I went all-in with Godox/Flashpoint a few years ago with AD600PRO and AD200's plus a few of the speedlites and have been very happy. No battery problems yet, but they get light use as I'm just a hobbyist. Not sure how I'd feel if I HAD to rely on them to make a living. I definitely have multiple batteries for everything just in case.

PCB will continue to lose market share as batteries get smaller. I think they will be forced to innovate and have a real battery alternative in order to survive. But, customer service is key and they really do have that from everything I've read over the years. This makes for loyal customers... but how far does that loyalty really go without innovation?

Actually, I like the AD600 quite a bit, but I use modeling lights in studio and the AD600 modeling light is a joke. The AD600Pro modeling light is barely adequate. I also use them with the remote heads, and I like that feature. But it was always a sticking point to decide to do a big-bang conversion to seven Godox/Flashpoint AD600Pro...and with the battery failures....

One thing I have changed in terms of "life propositions" from my viewpoint 20 years ago is that I no longer look at a studio flash purchase as being a once-in-twenty years or even once-in-a-decade purchase. Twenty years with some of my same Buff stuff has been fine, but I can live with Godox' rapid model iterations as well.

I'm just a hobbyist and have three Einsteins along with the Cybercommander. Yes, it is a very capable system, but setup is a bit of a PITA with having to attach the receiver and run power cords. I bought Adorama's version of the AD600 and AD200 last year with a couple of their "pop" modifiers. It probably only amounts to a few minutes, but the easier setup with less separate parts to deal with means I use them more. The high speed sync is really nice too when I drag it all to the back yard.

mike_d wrote in post #19103602
I'm just a hobbyist and have three Einsteins along with the Cybercommander. Yes, it is a very capable system, but setup is a bit of a PITA with having to attach the receiver and run power cords. I bought Adorama's version of the AD600 and AD200 last year with a couple of their "pop" modifiers. It probably only amounts to a few minutes, but the easier setup with less separate parts to deal with means I use them more. The high speed sync is really nice too when I drag it all to the back yard.

Ah, but once you have several different studio set-ups put on the CyberCommander micro SD card, switching between them is two button pushes. That's why I will leave the Buff stuff permanently in place in the studio (which is how Paul intended it) and use Godox on the go.

RDKirk wrote in post #19103607
Ah, but once you have several different studio set-ups put on the CyberCommander micro SD card, switching between them is two button pushes. That's why I will leave the Buff stuff permanently in place in the studio (which is how Paul intended it) and use Godox on the go.

If I had a dedicated (or even semi-dedicated) studio space where I could leave things setup, I'd definitely stick with the Einsteins. They're a bit more powerful than the AD600 and I believe have better color consistency. But as it is, my "studio" is the living room, garage, or back yard so I'm effectively mobile every time I use them.

I have Buff gear, Einsteins and White Lightnings, and also Godox/Flashpoint gear, AD600s, AD200s and AD360s. The Buff gear is set up in the studio and the Godox gear is taken on location. I didn’t plan it that way, but it saves time. Obviously would be better to have one trigger system and one type of modifier mount. I’ve considered moving to Profoto, but adding a new trigger and mount is even more prohibitive than the cost.

I use the Paul Buff system in the studio for the single reason of the Cyber Commander! There is no replacement and no other options from any other company on the market. The ability to load a setup with is how I shoot every day. Load a setup to shoot at f5.6 on one end of my camera room then load a setup to shoot at f8 with white cove on the other end. I have arount 20 lights in my main camera room with multiple setups.

I use Godox for all my outside lighting and I love it for that, but it would not work for me in the studio. There is no way to setup lots of lights and multiple setups in the iphone app. You can only have 5 lights at a time.

I was hopeing that the new paul buff ttl light would give us a new cyber commander, but it seems like they are ignoring those features.

allengambrell wrote in post #19104738
I was hopeing that the new paul buff ttl light would give us a new cyber commander, but it seems like they are ignoring those features.

The company lost guiding vision when they lost their visionary. I cannot see somone with product visionary potential going to work at Buff while Paul was alive. And now, with the Chinese competitiion, the place for Buff in the marketplace has been squeezed, making Buff a less attractive place for a product visionary to want to be.

Wilt wrote in post #19104875
The company lost guiding vision when they lost their visionary. I cannot see somone with product visionary potential going to work at Buff while Paul was alive. And now, with the Chinese competitiion, the place for Buff in the marketplace has been squeezed, making Buff a less attractive place for a product visionary to want to be.

Yes, that seems to be the case. Part of the problem is also what Buff complained about for several years before he died: US manufacturing having moved largely overseas, it's extremely difficult for an entrepreneur to get anything fabricated within the US. If you want a Defense Department-sized contract, you can get Raytheon or some such, but if you only want a few thousand small units a year...nope.

Also, the Chinese will instantly steal and copy any innovative design. Buff had them manufacturing his PLM designs, and they immediately began counterfeiting them (even down to engraving his brand on them).

I've got a studio setup consisting of 2AB and 2 white lightning strobes. If I were only shooting in a studio I would be satisfied. But they have been eclipsed by the godox for any other use.

The godox are portable, have built in power, HSS, TTL, and àn integrated radio control system that works from speedlites all the way through their 1200ws monster. I'll keep the bees as the value has dropped to the point where it's worth having them around. But any new purchases are going to be godox.

I have 2 AD 200s, the device that pairs them plus triggers for my canon flashes. Next stop is probably a 600.

RDKirk wrote in post #19104922
...it's extremely difficult for an entrepreneur to get anything fabricated within the US. If you want a Defense Department-sized contract, you can get Raytheon or some such, but if you only want a few thousand small units a year...nope.

Absolutely NOT true.

Now getting them made domestically for a price that will compete with China?... there you would have a point.

FarmerTed1971 wrote in post #19104963
Absolutely NOT true.

Now getting them made domestically for a price that will compete with China?... there you would have a point.

Well, yeah, that's a point that didn't really bear mentioning. As I said, if your budget is big enough (i.e., you can charge enough for the final product), you can get it made domestically.

Tons and tons of domestic manufacturers that would LOVE the work. Problem is our American experience is so use to cheap crap now that it's very hard to go back. We have only ourselves to blame.

I just bought a 56" LED television WITH a 3 year extended warranty for less than $400. How is this even possible? Retailer must be only making about $25 on the deal. It's pretty sad.
If it was made in the USA and there was no competition I'd expect to pay $1k for something like that.

Consumers win, but humanity loses.