Would you rather buy an R7 ?

Canonuser123 wrote in post #19169626
An APS-C sensor is much smaller area wise than a full frame sensor, you get many more sensors per wafer that way.
We are all just guessing on cost anyway, only Canon knows for sure.

Over time costs go down but not in the first offering, all the R&D are sunk into that release, along with new fabrication, prototypes, and new firmware.

Subsequent models that share that sensor come in at a lower price however.

In any case if there is a 7D RF model that comes out, it will be several hundreds more than the 7d2 launch price I am sure. Hope not, but demand is so low for digital camera gear, the price has to reflect a lower demand. It will at least be very close to the R6 price tag.

The absolutely only advantage I could see with an APS C offering in the R lineup would be a denser sensor for better cropping power. I don't see Canon making crop body lenses in the RF mount, but who knows. A 30 to 35Mpx crop body would be interesting to me as long as it has pretty close to the same ISO performance (within a stop, or under a stop), and all the same specs as the FF models, with burst rates, AF system, etc.

Then again though, it would be hard for me to spend $2500 just to get an R6 with a smaller sensor that has a higher pixel density than the R5, there would have be some sort of really good use case for me to do that. I could just go get an M6II then for much less money and use EF lenses with the speedbooster, etc. where I can convert the APS-C to a 1.1 crop when needed, or keep the 1.6 crop factor other times.

Assuming the R7 has all the goodies (AF, FPS and better sensor in the range of 30MP), I would think the price would be at least $2,999

rndman wrote in post #19169662
Assuming the R7 has all the goodies (AF, FPS and better sensor in the range of 30MP), I would think the price would be at least $2,999

Of course, the 90D/M6-II sensor is already a good sensor whose R&D is paid for (or most paid for) already. Unless they need to do something different for video modes, like any hardware binning, the existing sensor may fit the design already. It also depends on how much the responsiveness of the tracking and eye AF of the R6 and R5 depend on new sensor read-speed capabilities, and how much depends on the DIGIC.

I've been lurking more than posting on PoTN lately, but the recent rumors about an APS-C RF body (https://www.canonrumor​s.com …urrently-in-the-wild-cr2/) have me thinking a lot about this.

For me, I basically want to see something that could easily replace the 7Dii, with a solid build and a fast and accurate AF system like the R5. The big benefit of mirrorless for me would be not having to do MFA (although, to be honest, most of my blurred shots are motion blur due to my not following the moving subject smoothly and not because AF is off).

The M6ii or 90D sensors, as others have mentioned, would be a great starting point. Maybe this goes without saying, but I hope Canon also incorporates the R-type AF points that can AF at f/22 (600 or 800 mm f/11 lens + 2x TC).

I also hope Canon will make some native RF lenses in a good "normal" range for APS-C. I don't mean another plastic 18-55 STM, but updated RF versions of the 15-85 or 18-135 USM (and please add another mm or two at the short end of the latter!). Call them RF-S if you want, but unlike the original EF-S, with a shorter back-focus distance, RF crop lenses don't need to be physically blocked from attaching to full-frame R bodies (no mirror!). The full-frame R bodies can automatically switch to crop mode when they detect a crop lens.

With the R5 and R6, Canon has made a strong statement that they are playing to win in mirrorless with the R series. I really hope the rumored APS-C R body is just as serious, and is a compelling 7Dii successor for the 2020's.

If Canon can release such a body in the low US$2000's, I'll preorder it on day one.

I never considered the "gonna switch to Sony" philosophy, but if there's no good RF APS-C future from Canon, Sony might not be such a bad option. What makes me think differently about it now is that either way, I'll have to adapt my existing EF lenses or buy new ones. But having used exclusively Canon ILC's since 1982, I'm a long way from that conclusion.

I have high hope for this new APSC-mirrorless camera from Canon.
https://youtu.be/GWOos​Sy9NYg
I hope he’s right

Tony, "nee-shee" is not a word...
Niche is one syllable

Naturography wrote in post #19173232
I have high hope for this new APSC-mirrorless camera from Canon.
https://youtu.be/GWOos​Sy9NYg
I hope he’s right

Thanks for posting that link. I respect Tony, and what he's described seems well within Canon's capabilities in terms of both features and price point.

My only concern came near the end, when he compared this hypothetical APS-C body to the R6. I'm sure somebody within Canon will make that exact same comparison, and I worry they'll say "We can't do this. It will undercut R6 sales and PO our full frame customers." Time will tell if the "Canon hammer" has really been put away or was just held back for the R5 and R6.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19173239
Tony, "nee-shee" is not a word...
Niche is one syllable

He says it correctly a few times, and based on the context I think he's using "nichey" as the adjective form of niche (which is really a noun, despite often being used as an adjective).

Absolutely would grab one at time of release.

I'm fascinated in the interest due to the fact that this camera essentially already exists. It is of course the EOS M6II, complete with the same 32MP sensor found in the 90D, and a menu system nearly identical to the R6/R5, and control layout also very similar.
Oh, and you can get up to 30FPS RAW burst

Here in the rumors and "predictions" section, we can indulge our own flights of fancy. So not a prediction, but as I consider tht we've got people asking for what Canon been unable to sell for years now, the APS-C mirrorless,. also capable of working with the entire line of EF and EF-S lenses,. I had to ask;

How could Canon release and APS-C Mirrorless that will work with current APS-C M lenses and new fullframe RF lenses?

You can't give it an RF mount and make an adapter, nor the other way round. Canon really screwed the pooch on that one

But, if we think outside the box, we can solve the problem.

Build the APS-C "RM" bodies without either RF or M mount. Make a larger bayonet into which an RF or M mount can be installed, each locking into the body exactly where there own self setting flange distance needs to be.

OK, like I said flight of fantasy.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19177963
I'm fascinated in the interest due to the fact that this camera essentially already exists. It is of course the EOS M6II, complete with the same 32MP sensor found in the 90D, and a menu system nearly identical to the R6/R5, and control layout also very similar.
Oh, and you can get up to 30FPS RAW burst

The problems with the M6II for me are:

• No EVF. Yes, there's the optional EVF, but then you have to choose between either EVF or flash. I need both for macros.
  
• Too small. The small body makes it an ideal camera to take anywhere but coupled with a big macro lens, adapter and a twin flash it would become an ergonomic disaster (for me, at least).
  

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19177963
I'm fascinated in the interest due to the fact that this camera essentially already exists. It is of course the EOS M6II, complete with the same 32MP sensor found in the 90D, and a menu system nearly identical to the R6/R5, and control layout also very similar.
Oh, and you can get up to 30FPS RAW burst

Jake, you list items that definitely sit in the "pro" column, but for me, the items below sit in the "con" column for the M6II to the extent I decided against it, but potentially are resolved with the rumored R7.

The necessity of an add-on EVF for the M. Thanks but no thanks.

The implementation of the tilt screen on the M6II is not agreeable for me. I gave it some thought before picking up an M50, but for my purposes, it's no better than a fixed screen.

Size. Yes I have an M50, and I like the small form for lighter lenses or other duties, but I prefer the balance, handling, and ergonomics the larger body provides when shooting action with longer lenses. Additionally, I can move thru changes/adjustments on the fly much more efficiently with an R body vs M.

There had been rumors that the APS-C variant could be R or M, but seems to of swung back to R mount. If the rumors swing back to M mount, I think the interest will wane considerably.

I have to admit, I do find it interesting that Canon would not have offered up an M6II with the built in EVF option. (M60?)

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19177963
I'm fascinated in the interest due to the fact that this camera essentially already exists. It is of course the EOS M6II, complete with the same 32MP sensor found in the 90D, and a menu system nearly identical to the R6/R5, and control layout also very similar.
Oh, and you can get up to 30FPS RAW burst

Here in the rumors and "predictions" section, we can indulge our own flights of fancy. So not a prediction, but as I consider tht we've got people asking for what Canon been unable to sell for years now, the APS-C mirrorless,. also capable of working with the entire line of EF and EF-S lenses,. I had to ask;

How could Canon release and APS-C Mirrorless that will work with current APS-C M lenses and new fullframe RF lenses?

You can't give it an RF mount and make an adapter, nor the other way round. Canon really screwed the pooch on that one

But, if we think outside the box, we can solve the problem.

Build the APS-C "RM" bodies without either RF or M mount. Make a larger bayonet into which an RF or M mount can be installed, each locking into the body exactly where there own self setting flange distance needs to be.

OK, like I said flight of fantasy.

No MFA which means precise consistent focus at any distance. Besides it is a pain in the keister. I never liked it and never will. Have I ever mentioned this before

Will be very interesting to see if this camera come to fruition. I don’t see it being in my price range anytime soon but could see myself looking for one in the used marketplace in 5-6 years.

Canonuser123 wrote in post #19169626
An APS-C sensor is much smaller area wise than a full frame sensor, you get many more sensors per wafer that way.
We are all just guessing on cost anyway, only Canon knows for sure.

We know, as a generality, that smaller area semiconductur circuit has better yields than a larger area semiconductor circuit. Indeed, all except for a small circle in the 'inside circle' folks, no one knows

1. yield rates of APS-C size sensors vs larger FF sensors...it is inherenly harder for a larger circuit area to be defect free!
   
2. if APS-C sensors are made on a less expensive smaller semiconductor wafer process line (e.g. 5" wafer) vs. FF sensors on a larger more expensive semiconductor wafer process line (e.g. 7"), or if both are fabricated on the same size process line.