External RAID storage

I need to find some kind of external RAID storage. I three pairs of Raid 1 dives inside my computer, and no more space inside the computer.

I don't need "cloud access" so I don't know if I need it to be networked external storage?

I use RAID 1 for the redundancy. Any thoughts on that?

Have you thought about adding at least one more drive, and going to RAID-5? The striping adds speed, and the parity will rebuild a failed disk. Only downside is getting it built. You would need a drive independent of the RAID array to hold all the files, and then use it to stripe the RAID-5 array.

I'm looking at some sort of NAS myself, and just don't know what I want to do yet. Options are expensive, but I have a couple of images I would hate to lose. I do have a Flickr Pro account, but at my demise they would be purged. I know, I wouldn't care then, but ...

You can use LAN-connected NAS (networked access server) RAID or USB-connected external RAID. I have both types, but I have reduced my usage (I leave it powered off unless actually reading/writing to it) of the LAN-connected RAID simply due to countless unauthorized access attempts from all over the world that are aware of Synology NAS!

KatManDEW wrote in post #19149977
I need to find some kind of external RAID storage. I three pairs of Raid 1 dives inside my computer, and no more space inside the computer.

I don't need "cloud access" so I don't know if I need it to be networked external storage?

I use RAID 1 for the redundancy. Any thoughts on that?

I'd swap out the smallest non OS internal raid's with a pair of newer larger drives. I am making assumptions, but I have to assume that if you re out of space, you've got some mirrored drives in there with middling capacity. I just bought an external 12TB drive for under $200.00 recently.

In the past I have made external raid enclosures, raid 1 and raid 5,. thinking this was a good solution. In the end, they end up abandoned in short order as the external interface always seems to be a compromise of some sort be it speed or power management, etc, and newer faster internals are always just around the bend. The externals therefore have ended up being a bit of waste of money and time.

Lastly, RAID 1 is a great tool for internal drives you use every day for added redundancy and low to zero downtime. this is why I use RAID 1 internals. RAID 1 is not a back up solution, and those volumes also must be backed up to something that is not "always on" like an external drive (not a raid enclosure)

I do not disagree with Jake, but it does need to be pointed out that upgrading the size of the internal drives brings along with it the 'commplication' of HOW to MOVE DATA from the smaller drives to the newer larger drives...you need to have all plugged in and operating so as to copy the data from old to new location.

KatManDEW wrote in post #19149977
I need to find some kind of external RAID storage. I three pairs of Raid 1 dives inside my computer, and no more space inside the computer.

I don't need "cloud access" so I don't know if I need it to be networked external storage?

I use RAID 1 for the redundancy. Any thoughts on that?

Sounds like your looking for a DAS, or Direct Attached Storage.
They are less popular in the market than a NAS (Network Attached Storage) as they are less versatile and depending on how you work, can be harder to back up.
A NAS can sit anywhere you have access to the network, so it doesn't even have to be in the same building. A DAS needs to be physically close to your computer and plugs directly into it, usually via USB3.1 or Thunderbolt.
This means you can access a NAS from anywhere, and from multiple devices, and it means the NAS is independent, so it run a back up to a different device with out being connected to a computer.
The downside if access to the NAS is limited by the speed of your network. Since a DAS plugs directly into your computer access speed is limited only by the type of interface used, and USB3.1 and Thunderbolt can be 10x faster than most home networks.
But for the DAS to do anything it is reliant on being connected to your computer.


I run a NAS, it sits in a cupboard out of sight and out of hearing. But top get the connection speeds I needed I had to also install a managed switch and add a second nic to my PC allowing three network connections to be teamed together into a single connection.
But it does mean the NAS is always back up to a cloud service and I can access my files from anywhere with an internet connection, which has been more useful that I thought, having had to retrieve files for customers several times. I also have my phone back up to it, along with my email and other cloud based services.
It also meant I could move to an 8 bay machine, run two separate storage volumes and get RAID 6 for 2 disc redundancy and some performance. Currently it has about 24TB of total storage in it, and it's very easy to replace smaller discs with larger ones.

A DAS would work, I have USB3.1 connections on my computer, and I wouldn't have needed the extra investment in a managed switch, or the knowledge to set it up, but it would have meant finding somewhere near my PC to put it and I wouldn't have to remote connectivity that I get from the NAS.

Qnap, Lacie and Drobo all make reliable DAS devices with USB 3.1 and or thunderbolt connections.
Qnap make a couple that can be connected as a DAS, or as a NAS it has 4 bays supports all the common RAID types.

Lacie and Drobo both make units targeted at photographers and other creatives. They tend to be expensive and it's import to check what connection types they have, as some are Thunderbolt only. They are very clearly targeted at Apple Mac users.
But they have various options for numbers of drives and all support RAID 1 on the 2 drive enclosures and RAID 1,5,6 etc on larger multi bay units.
Lacie have a solid history and are well known for making good products.
Drobo don't have a great history, having made some RAID arrays in the past that failed with no ability to recover them and really bad support. They have since changed ownership, but I find the language on the website to be very misleading, it's clearly aimed at people with a high level of creative literacy, but a low level of computer literacy.


RAID 1 is great for redundancy, but remember that is all it is, if one drive fails, you have one copy left until you can replace it.
If both drives fail, if the computer has a power surge and fries everything, if it's stolen, if your house is lost, if anything happens to both drives, then you have lost all your data.
So you still need a proper back up. The same is true with a NAS or a DAS, you still need separate physical back ups, I use a cloud server and a large disc in a USB3 enclosure. At some point in the future that won't be big enough and I'll likely install another NAS at another location (likely family) and have my NAS back up to that.


Is there a reason why you want large external storage, rather than just putting bigger drives in your PC? 6 bays is a lot of space, and hardware RAID controller in a PCI slot running 6 or 8TB drives would give you 18-24TB of storage.

Wilt wrote in post #19158908
You can use LAN-connected NAS (networked access server) RAID or USB-connected external RAID.

LAN = Local Area Network
NAS = Network Attached Storage
DAS = Direct Attached Storage
Your NAS needs a LAN if you want to access its RAID but a DAS is simple.

Wilt wrote in post #19158946
I do not disagree with Jake, but it does need to be pointed out that upgrading the size of the internal drives brings along with it the 'commplication' of HOW to MOVE DATA from the smaller drives to the newer larger drives...you need to have all plugged in and operating so as to copy the data from old to new location.

If connecting a hard drive to your computer is a complication then there is little anyone on the internet can to do help.

The real complication is ensuring any copied data is not subject to corruption during the copy process as most methods for copying large amounts of data don't employ any kind of checksum or verification.

The 'complication' I referred to is 'What if all my internal power connections and data connections to internal harddrive are used up, how will I power and establish a data connection to my new, larger drive unit, in order for it to take the place of an older, smaller drive unit that is internal to the PC?"

Certainly there is the consideration of data integrity in transferring data, but the very basic 'How do I connect it?" is the first issue to resolve. There are different solutions available, but the user is faced with that decision first, in planning to execute the upgrade of the internal drive.

It's called Universal Serial Bus (USB) and it's a great way to connect hard drives to your computer

Moppie wrote in post #19159492
It's called Universal Serial Bus (USB) and it's a great way to connect hard drives to your computer

Yeah, and if the user has an INTERNAL hd that they wish to replace with a larger INTERNAL hd, that is indeed what has to be planneed out in advance by the user! Not all folks are so technically aware to plan how to connect the larger replacement externally, so I was simply giving warning of that need.

Why the snide attitude toward my posts, Moppie? It is a consistency I have noticed, like you hate my posts and need to denigrate them.
Very uncharacteristic of all the Kiwis I have known in professional and other capacity. Most all of the Moderators I have encountered over the decades have been cordial in their interactions with most everyone.

KatManDEW wrote in post #19149977
I need to find some kind of external RAID storage. I three pairs of Raid 1 dives inside my computer, and no more space inside the computer.

I don't need "cloud access" so I don't know if I need it to be networked external storage?

I use RAID 1 for the redundancy. Any thoughts on that?

Heya,

What size drives are you using internally?

I ask because maybe you could simply replace them instead of adding more drives externally or over networking. For example, if a RAID1 array internal is using two 4TB drives, why not replace them with two 12TB drives for example? Or whatever capacity of your choice? You just take one drive offline from the array, put in your larger drive and rebuild the array. It will be fast because it's 1:1 copy and not fooling with parity. You can then do the second drive the same way, etc. You could do this for all your RAID1 arrays without having to simply add more drives externally. Then you can use those smaller drives as you wish as extras, or retire them.

Networked externally is a good way to have a second solution for more capacity, another physical copy of the data, etc and remotely handle it. You can build a NAS for this. You can use mirroring in this implementation too of course.

You can also of course explore USB based options. It just depends on what kind of access, redundancy, speed needs, etc, that you want.

Very best,

Wilt wrote in post #19158908
You can use LAN-connected NAS (networked access server) RAID or USB-connected external RAID. I have both types, but I have reduced my usage (I leave it powered off unless actually reading/writing to it) of the LAN-connected RAID simply due to countless unauthorized access attempts from all over the world that are aware of Synology NAS!

I never thought it much but just this week I saw someone post that a hacker infected their NAS with ransomware and the hacker wanted a ridiculously large sum of money to unlock it.

I would like to have an external drive enclosure accessible to multiple devices with my home network. But I don't want to expose it to hacking.

MalVeauX wrote in post #19159976
Heya,

What size drives are you using internally?

I ask because maybe you could simply replace them instead of adding more drives externally or over networking. For example, if a RAID1 array internal is using two 4TB drives, why not replace them with two 12TB drives for example? Or whatever capacity of your choice? You just take one drive offline from the array, put in your larger drive and rebuild the array. It will be fast because it's 1:1 copy and not fooling with parity. You can then do the second drive the same way, etc. You could do this for all your RAID1 arrays without having to simply add more drives externally. Then you can use those smaller drives as you wish as extras, or retire them.

Networked externally is a good way to have a second solution for more capacity, another physical copy of the data, etc and remotely handle it. You can build a NAS for this. You can use mirroring in this implementation too of course.

You can also of course explore USB based options. It just depends on what kind of access, redundancy, speed needs, etc, that you want.

Very best,

I didn't know I could pull on drive from a pair and replace it with a second empty drive that was larger. I did do that many years ago when one drive in a pair went bad, but I replaced it with an identical drive.

In addition to room for drives inside my computer, the other reason I would like to move to external storage is so that it would be easy to maintain the storage when I replace my computer, or if my computer dies and I need to get a new one.

KatManDEW wrote in post #19165700
I didn't know I could pull on drive from a pair and replace it with a second empty drive that was larger. I did do that many years ago when one drive in a pair went bad, but I replaced it with an identical drive.

In addition to room for drives inside my computer, the other reason I would like to move to external storage is so that it would be easy to maintain the storage when I replace my computer, or if my computer dies and I need to get a new one.

IF your current RAID is configured as RAID 1, remove ONE of the pair (let's call it Drive B) and insert a new larger drive. The RAID will automatically see that Drive B as not properly mirroring the Drive A in the pair, so it automatically copies data to the new drive so that it mirrors Drive A.
Once it is done mirroring data into Drive B, the you can remove the Drive A and replace that with a larger disk. The RAID will automatically see that new Drive A as not properly mirroring the Drive B in the pair, so it automatically copies data to the new drive so that it mirrors Drive B.

Moppie wrote in post #19159079
Sounds like your looking for a DAS, or Direct Attached Storage.
They are less popular in the market than a NAS (Network Attached Storage) as they are less versatile and depending on how you work, can be harder to back up.
A NAS can sit anywhere you have access to the network, so it doesn't even have to be in the same building. A DAS needs to be physically close to your computer and plugs directly into it, usually via USB3.1 or Thunderbolt.
This means you can access a NAS from anywhere, and from multiple devices, and it means the NAS is independent, so it run a back up to a different device with out being connected to a computer.
The downside if access to the NAS is limited by the speed of your network. Since a DAS plugs directly into your computer access speed is limited only by the type of interface used, and USB3.1 and Thunderbolt can be 10x faster than most home networks.
But for the DAS to do anything it is reliant on being connected to your computer.

I run a NAS, it sits in a cupboard out of sight and out of hearing. But top get the connection speeds I needed I had to also install a managed switch and add a second nic to my PC allowing three network connections to be teamed together into a single connection.
But it does mean the NAS is always back up to a cloud service and I can access my files from anywhere with an internet connection, which has been more useful that I thought, having had to retrieve files for customers several times. I also have my phone back up to it, along with my email and other cloud based services.
It also meant I could move to an 8 bay machine, run two separate storage volumes and get RAID 6 for 2 disc redundancy and some performance. Currently it has about 24TB of total storage in it, and it's very easy to replace smaller discs with larger ones.

A DAS would work, I have USB3.1 connections on my computer, and I wouldn't have needed the extra investment in a managed switch, or the knowledge to set it up, but it would have meant finding somewhere near my PC to put it and I wouldn't have to remote connectivity that I get from the NAS.

Qnap, Lacie and Drobo all make reliable DAS devices with USB 3.1 and or thunderbolt connections.
Qnap make a couple that can be connected as a DAS, or as a NAS it has 4 bays supports all the common RAID types.

Lacie and Drobo both make units targeted at photographers and other creatives. They tend to be expensive and it's import to check what connection types they have, as some are Thunderbolt only. They are very clearly targeted at Apple Mac users.
But they have various options for numbers of drives and all support RAID 1 on the 2 drive enclosures and RAID 1,5,6 etc on larger multi bay units.
Lacie have a solid history and are well known for making good products.
Drobo don't have a great history, having made some RAID arrays in the past that failed with no ability to recover them and really bad support. They have since changed ownership, but I find the language on the website to be very misleading, it's clearly aimed at people with a high level of creative literacy, but a low level of computer literacy.

RAID 1 is great for redundancy, but remember that is all it is, if one drive fails, you have one copy left until you can replace it.
If both drives fail, if the computer has a power surge and fries everything, if it's stolen, if your house is lost, if anything happens to both drives, then you have lost all your data.
So you still need a proper back up. The same is true with a NAS or a DAS, you still need separate physical back ups, I use a cloud server and a large disc in a USB3 enclosure. At some point in the future that won't be big enough and I'll likely install another NAS at another location (likely family) and have my NAS back up to that.

Is there a reason why you want large external storage, rather than just putting bigger drives in your PC? 6 bays is a lot of space, and hardware RAID controller in a PCI slot running 6 or 8TB drives would give you 18-24TB of storage.

Thank you for the very thoughtful reply.

I ant external storage so that it will be easy to get to it when I replace my computer or if my computer dies.

I would also be nice to allow someone else in my house access the storage so I guess I need NAS.

Why did you need additional NIC's? For video?