Is this unethical?

HKGuns wrote in post #19174958
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is generally a decent space to occupy.

This.

Also keep in mind that it's expensive to stay on the cutting edge of any technology. There's a certain segment of the market who will pay substantially more for a product to stay on that cutting edge. If you want to play in that game, you can complain about the rules, but understand you're in a perpetual bidding war.

Generally, that market gets sated pretty quickly. Demand can be met at regular, full MSRP and the "scalping" layer of the market dries up. At this point the market stabilizes for a while. Anyone who "needs" the technology can find it at a predictable price.

Eventually that phase passes too. Everyone who "needed" one has one. Now the market has to entice buyers who "want" the technology but are very much price sensitive. This is where retailers have to earn their money. It usually starts with bundling, then discounting, then a surplus market emerges. At every step the supply side's profit goes down but it's just the market's way of keeping inventory moving through the pipeline.

The beauty is that, as a buyer, you're allowed to jump into the market wherever you're comfortable. If you're willing to pay extra to be 3 months ahead of everyone else, there's a market for that. If you're willing to wait a year or two, you can pick one up at a discount.

Personally, I'm at the very far end of the cycle and participate mostly in the used market - which is robust. I use gear that is at least one generation and often more past the cutting edge. But, I usually pay half or less of the original MSRP. Is that unethical?

MalVeauX wrote in post #19174946
Every single time you buy something, you're supporting this practice, simply on a much larger scale. . . . Major chains and corps crushing local business is a good example of this. They were able to buy bulk, low, and destroy the other small business's ability to get stock at all, choking their sales (Amazon, Walmart, etc). This is the same practice, just on a different scale.

Well, I don't patronize Amazon or Walmart, precisely because of the business practices you mention, among other things they do that I regard as unethical. But you seem to ignore my post making a distinction. I'm not supporting an unethical practice when I buy from an ethical business.

So I must wait for a legislature or a business to issue a dictum that embodies its ethics (or just its interests) before I can decide how to behave ethically? I don't believe so. For one thing, laws and policies change all the time, even when circumstances don't. A document that labels an act as ethical or unethical may be obsolete tomorrow.

HKGuns wrote in post #19174958
Whether or not it is ethical could be a very long and existential conversation.

Yes, it threatens to become one here. Its longevity is in doubt.

OhLook wrote in post #19175051
... For one thing, laws and policies change all the time, even when circumstances don't. A document that labels an act as ethical or unethical may be obsolete tomorrow..

Laws do not define ethics but a legal system we have all been asked to abide by. Ethics is one of those made up concepts that encompass a belief system of a group of people. Unfortunately, there are probably as many version of ethics beliefs as there are people and even those can change with in an individual over time. Laws are real in that they are defined by a governing authority, thus enforceable. Ethics are make believe concept defined by an individual. Your ethical beliefs can and most likely are very different than everyone else's.

MalVeauX wrote in post #19174946
The behavior and act is no different from any business sales you experience. The difference is simply you have an emotional investment in the camera stuff that spawned you to want to talk about this.

No, you know nothing about me yet make an assumption that is incorrect.

But I thank everyone for their opinion.

Risk/reward. He's taking the risk. My roommate in college emptied his bank account to get George Harrison tickets the day they went on sale at the Providence Civic center. Got almost 100. Next pay check he bought 20 more. He was a huge fan, assumed everybody else was too. One day show, light snow that day. The venue only sold about 60% anyway. He was standing outside that night trying to sell $25 tickets for $5. Most ended up in the trash.

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I'm not surprised. . Wouldn't think of George Harrison as a ticket that would be in very high demand.

My sister-in-law did kinda the same thing with Adelle concert tickets a few years ago. . She bought several tickets, not sure exactly how many ..... cleared over $1,000 in net profit. . Not too bad for 15 to 20 hours of work and putting about $500 on the line for a week or so.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19175482
My sister-in-law did kinda the same thing with Adelle concert tickets a few years ago. . She bought several tickets, not sure exactly how many ..... cleared over $1,000 in net profit. . Not too bad for 15 to 20 hours of work and putting about $500 on the line for a week or so.

What service did she imagine she was offering in these transactions, what was the exchange? I mean, for instance, did she think she was collecting a deserved penalty from people who hadn't got it together to buy their tickets earlier?

OhLook wrote in post #19175504
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What service did she imagine she was offering in these transactions, what was the exchange? I mean, for instance, did she think she was collecting a deserved penalty from people who hadn't got it together to buy their tickets earlier?
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She thought she was making the most of an opportunity to get money for herself and her family. . That's what she thought. . And I applaud her for it, and any other individual who takes advantage of similar opportunities.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19175523
She thought she was making the most of an opportunity to get money for herself and her family. . That's what she thought. . And I applaud her for it, and any other individual who takes advantage of similar opportunities.

Ocean. Life preserver.

OhLook wrote in post #19175596
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Ocean. Life preserver.
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I can't figure out what that means, in the context of this discussion ..... but I do appreciate you responding to me, nonetheless.


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Perfectly Frank wrote in post #19153029
There is a popular camera that is hard to find and on backorder at many retailers. Someone buys a few and offers for sale at a large markup.
This seems unethical to me, as it deprives some people from buying the camera at the normal price. It reminds me of a ticket scalper.

Or am I wrong? Maybe it's just the business cycle of buy & sell.
What's your opinion?

You're not wrong. It's how you feel. I on the other hand do not feel it's unethical. If someone can make a profit over an item that is in high demand, so be it. My buddy paid more than he should have for a PS5. But he was happy as a clam (whatever that means LOL) when he brought it home. So for him it was worth paying more.

I returned my R6 back in August because there were no EF-EOS adapters available from retail outlets. Soon after that, the R6 too became scarce. I said to my wife "damn...I coulda sold it for a profit if hindsight was 20/20". Oh well...I since got the R6 from Buckeye1 when I finally bought a used adapter in early December!

Where do the ethics lines begin and end? For instance, the new PlayStation 5 has been sold out everywhere and the newest high end graphics cards as well. These were first being bought out by scalpers using bots to purchase and refresh pages far faster than the people camping the order sites manually. They’re being sold for over double their MSRPs on eBay or Craigslist by these bot scalpers.

I think scalping (like the op posted) and buying things from Goodwill, etc. to sell at higher prices for profit is totally different.

This scalping also happens in the "gun" world... anyone heard of cheaper than dirt? They used to scalp people, now they are sued and are paying back customers if I heard correctly.

I don't think buying new or especially used "luxury" items like cameras, cars, etc and selling them at a (possible) profit is unethical. But marking up or hoarding items like hand sanitizer during a pandemic is certainly a douchy move IMO. So is the astronomical mark-up on many items - especially drugs like insulin! But that is a whole other can of worms.

I personally have never been the type of person who had to be the first on the block to have item X and instead I get greater satisfaction finding deals / bargains on used items or "last years" model. If someone HAS to have item X right NOW and it's sold out, then it's their $$ if they want to pay a crazy inflated price now.