Canon doubling down on overpriced RF gear with the newest flash units.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19202084
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Right, I knew that. . What I wanted to know is, were you specifically talking about the availability of brand new batteries for older Godox strobes, or were you also talking about the availability of used batteries for these strobes.

Finding old, used batteries for cameras is never difficult for me, no matter how long they have been out of production. . I am wondering if it is the same way with finding old, used, discontinued batteries for strobes, and whether or not they are easy to find on eBay.

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But, Tom, older lithium cells have inherently less total capacity to hold charge than a newly manufactured cell, (losing capacity from the time the lithium anode is manufactured and put into the cell). So you might get a 'working' battery that replaces a non-working battery, but it still does not have the capacity of a newly manufactured lithium battery.

With more and more products having custom housings for the rechargeble cells, it is problematic to open them up to put in a fresh cell, exacerbating the problem of manufacturers discontinuing replacement parts for their products.

Yes, the batteries used to be cheaper, but the prices have gone up and will do so as they become more rare. The strobe was about $400. In the other thread that was referenced, you can't even find the batteries any longer. I can find my batteries now, but they are about 2x the costs from when I first purchased it. I am trying to decide if its even worth buying one at $180 knowing that in a couple more years, these will likely be even more and harder to find. I have even thought about buying the $125 AC option that replaces the battery so that if I get to that point, at least I have a wired strobe. I think that Godox gear probably has about a 6-8 year life before batteries become hard to find, and in about 10 years, one will be out of luck completely. So I am likely left with the option to buy a new strobe and just part out the old one on ebay to keep costs down.

So that is the only real downside to the 3rd party strobes and flashes, longevity of parts and batteries. In any case, one can just go buy very, very expensive Canon gear too and not worry so much. You are going to pay one way or the other, you just have to decide which glass you take, the one half full, or the one half empty.

One final scenario for me will be to take apart the battery pack and replace the cells inside. However if the cells are welded together (which they likely are), I won't be able to.

As a followup, I was aware of this "longevity of parts issues" when I bought the AD200 flashes, I bought extra batteries for that. When I bought 4 Godox speedlite-style flashes to replace my Canon ones, I made sure I bought the AA versions as well as to not have any worries there. It is mostly this one big strobe that worries me, especially as others have started to see issues getting replacement batteries.

So with this new Canon flash given its list price, I can only imagine what that replacement battery will cost. I bet if you want the flash and a spare battery (because if you are a pro, you will have backup batteries), I bet you will have to pay about $200 for the battery. So 2 flashes, and 1 spare battery at a minimum, you are shelling out $2300. Yikes!

Gotcha by the short and curly hairs, don't they?!

Manufacturing cost in no way influences the retail price of these things

ImageMaker... wrote in post #19202140
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Manufacturing cost in no way influences the retail price of these things.
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Actually, it is one of the factors that determines what the retail price will be.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19202190
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Actually, it is one of the factors that determines what the retail price will be.

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The manufacturing cost is very low for this kind of tech. It’s more like “Collective Consumer Stupidity” these days. Even an iPhone does not represent cost. It’s price based perceived value. Cost of manufacturing, even with an incompetently built manufacturing line just isn’t that high.

Some folks might find a BOM cost, but that is per piece and not based on tens millions of units purchased. Economies of scale bring costs down significantly.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19202190
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Actually, it is one of the factors that determines what the retail price will be.

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I have direct knowledge, as a Product Manager for one of the largest vendors in the world in its market segment, that a significant production cost reduction does not necesarily manifest itself as a dollar-for-dollar decrease in price to the end buyer. Cost reduction might sometimes mean a product goes from marginally profitable for a company to fully profitable, earning it a right for continued existence!
In the profit/loss anaysis each quarter, one product (not mine) went from significant loss to minor loss, which was good because it was a necessary product for the company that it could not afford to discontinue.

I have a t5i and recently went for a full upgrade. wanted r series but when I saw the price of an adapter from ef I got a 5dMK4.

filmuser wrote in post #19202386
I have a t5i and recently went for a full upgrade. wanted r series but when I saw the price of an adapter from ef I got a 5dMK4.

where are you located? there are 3 adapters from Canon and a couple decent aftermarket ones, the latter being very inexpensive. Can't go wrong with the 5D4 though.

SYS wrote in post #19201851
It seems like Canon's strategy of facing the challenges of third-party competitors is to double down by making even greater separation and divide with their product pricing from their competitors. Even their batteries and lens hoods and other accessories are priced as if the word "Canon" is engraved in white gold.

I thought the RF 600 and the RF 800 were very interesting within this marketing context, as these two particular lenses are obviously Canon's answer to the challenges from the Sigmas and the Tamrons, and given the popularity of these bargain RF lenses, I'm sure Canon is taking away a big portion of the revenue pie from the competitors. But, Canon is not willing to adopt the same strategy with other products. With the successful debut of the RF bargain lenses, perhaps their future marketing strategy might change a bit.

On one hand Canon has this EL-1, R5, and too many $2000-3000 L zooms and primes.

But on the other hand they have the EL-100, Rp, 35mm and 85mm Macro, 24-105mm STM, 50mm f1.8 and the 600/800. That's a FF system for Crop system money (and weight). So I don't feel quite as strongly that they are only out to bilk photographers for overpriced gear.

I think the frustration is probably from the missing middle ground and third party options. I was excited for the RF 70-200mm f4 until I saw it costs over $1700 with tax. That was f2.8 money not to long ago.

tkbslc wrote in post #19202898
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I was excited for the RF 70-200mm f4 until I saw it costs over $1700 with tax. That was f2.8 money not to long ago.
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Conversely, the EF 70-200mm f4 lenses - both the IS and non-IS versions - are stunningly inexpensive on the used market. I looked them up on the Fred Miranda classifieds and was literally shocked at how little you can get one for.

https://www.fredmirand​a.com/forum/search.php

A non-IS 70-200mm f4 in decent/fair condition recently sold for $200

A 70-200mm f4 with IS in excellent condition recently sold for $395

Getting one of those and the adaptor seems like a much better idea than spending $1700 for a lens that will depreciate rapidly.


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There are advantages to the RF lenses that aren't available to EF-RF converted lenses that people are willing to pay for. I can think of 4 advantages that I have heard mentioned.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19202927
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There are advantages to the RF lenses that aren't available to EF-RF converted lenses that people are willing to pay for. I can think of 4 advantages that I have heard mentioned.
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I can't wait to hear what those advantages are! . They could be things that swing someone's decision about what to buy.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19202934
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I can't wait to hear what those advantages are! . They could be things that swing someone's decision about what to buy.

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Built in control ring...
No need for the adapter on your lenses, another stress point and bulk...
Faster AF...
Better stabilization where IBIS works in conjunction with RF IS...
Also for some lenses, better IQ than their equivalent EF counterpart, or there is no EF equivalent...