R5/R6 e-shutter firmware wish, custom set FPS, or...?

So essentially everyone that owns an R5 or R6 wants the same thing from a firmware update. (among others)
The ability to adjust the unreal 20FPS frame rate that is locked in when using the e-shutter.

I don't pretend to understand why this arrived with only 20fps as an option. If there is a some hardware limitation, or if it's just wrong minded or lazy thinking on Canon's part? no idea.

Regardless, perhaps what we think we want is actually not what we really want.
Perhaps we just have not thought outside the box enough.

Perhaps what we really want is a totally new and different custom adjustment that will be much more useful, so much so it will soon be de-rigueur on all cameras?

It's NOT FPS, it's Depth of Burst, or Duration that we need help in controlling!

Every time the subject of fast fps burst rates is brought up, going all the way back to early 1D bodies, inevitably the discussion turns to what we can and can not control due to the speed of the FPS. The key here is not the FPS itself, but the inability to actually control it. The faster it gets, the harder it is to use it "selectively". We inevitably trigger more frames than we desire as we can;t maintain control at 10/12/ or 20 fps.

So let's accept as an axiom that there is in fact a reason why adjusting down from 20 fps is an issue that we just don't understand yet.
Don't let this stop the innovation. Keep it at 20 fps, that's fine. Because all this time, the FPS has never really been our problem.

What's been our problem as FPS has climbed has been our ability to control the duration of the burst!

Select fire automatic weapons solved this problem decades ago, by offering single shot, full auto, and "3 shot burst". (this in a fully mechanical trigger system where this is a much more complicated mechanical solution to achieve that 3 shot burst)

So what we really want on our 20 fps e-shutter is a custom setting to choose a "burst mode" and to chose the specific number of frames for the duration of that burst. Set it to 3, 5 or 1, etc. Make this number fully variable, as unlike controlling the burst speed, the burst depth or duration is purely an electronic count.

Combine this with my dream two stage shutter, and all problems are solved!

It sounds amazingly simple, and amazingly how it should have been all along. If there's an implementation challenge, I can't imagine what it would be aside from simply writing the routine to do it. And even that sems mindlessly simple to me. Maybe that's the problem.

Well said, Jake.

Exact-a-múndo

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19219744
...So what we really want on our 20 fps e-shutter is a custom setting to choose a "burst mode" and to chose the specific number of frames for the duration of that burst. Set it to 3, 5 or 1, etc. Make this number fully variable, as unlike controlling the burst speed, the burst depth or duration is purely an electronic count.

Combine this with my dream two stage shutter, and all problems are solved!

I would actually want both.

If I want a 3 second burst, I don't want 60 shots to go through. So I would rather say 12 fps and 3 sec max burst, so that I have half the files. I have used the ES during sports a few times now, and would dearly love to be able to reduce 20fps down to something else, somewhere between 10 and 20fps as an option.

So let's ask for both, a FPS setting other than 20 (14, 17, 20 for example, or user settable) and a burst duration (1-5 sec).

Double exact-a-mundo.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19219759
...So let's ask for both, a FPS setting other than 20 (14, 17, 20 for example, or user settable) and a burst duration (1-5 sec).

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19219759
I would actually want both...

Me too!!!!

Reading Jake's OP, made me start thinking about "What is the problem needing to be solved?"

One scenario is, while shooting a portrait of a person, how many frames do I need to capture a person NOT in the middle of a blink?

A person's blink can be as long as 400ms, per Harvard. So if I could set various frame rates for fixed duration burst shooting, with along with some fixed duration of capture, what would happen, if I had set 0.5 second burst limit and the blink happened to start 0.1 sec. after I pressed the shutter?
During the first 100ms there is no blink, then for the next 400ms the frames capture the blink (lid half closed, fully closed, half open) and 2 sec was the interval between blinks

IMAGE LINK: https://app.photobucke​t.com …e0-4694-b806-7d235cc65b6f

IMAGE LINK: https://app.photobucke​t.com …2f-4aee-b448-b7a0794b0872

I am thinking more about sports where there are just many small 3 second bursts of action, and I don't need to capture 20 frames each second where an arm or foot has moved just inches. 10fps has always been a pretty good limit for what I shoot, and not all my lenses can run the R6 at that 12fps speed in mech shutter, so I go to ES, where now I have 60+ images I have to sift through for a small 3 sec burst of action on the field.

Having to go from maybe 8fps to 20fps is pretty ridiculous with nothing in between.

Shooting group portraits where I do a burst to try to get everyone's eyes open just requires about a 1sec (maybe 2) burst of around 8fps, which I can do today.

I know that the speed of low speed continuous can be adjusted on the 7D II. It would be great to have that sort of option on the R5/R6, I agree with you.

Under Focus bracketing, there's a sub-menu, "Number of shots" where you can set from 1 to 999 shots. Why can't that be done under Mechanical and Elec. Shutter modes, with a sub-menu, "Number of shots," where you can select the desired number? Simple, Canon.

Under Elec. Shutter mode, there should be another sub-menu: "Silent" or "Sound."

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19219744
So essentially everyone that owns an R5 or R6 wants the same thing from a firmware update. (among others)
The ability to adjust the unreal 20FPS frame rate that is locked in when using the e-shutter.

I don't pretend to understand why this arrived with only 20fps as an option. If there is a some hardware limitation, or if it's just wrong minded or lazy thinking on Canon's part? no idea.

Regardless, perhaps what we think we want is actually not what we really want.
Perhaps we just have not thought outside the box enough.

Perhaps what we really want is a totally new and different custom adjustment that will be much more useful, so much so it will soon be de-rigueur on all cameras?

It's NOT FPS, it's Depth of Burst, or Duration that we need help in controlling!

Every time the subject of fast fps burst rates is brought up, going all the way back to early 1D bodies, inevitably the discussion turns to what we can and can not control due to the speed of the FPS. The key here is not the FPS itself, but the inability to actually control it. The faster it gets, the harder it is to use it "selectively". We inevitably trigger more frames than we desire as we can;t maintain control at 10/12/ or 20 fps.

So let's accept as an axiom that there is in fact a reason why adjusting down from 20 fps is an issue that we just don't understand yet.
Don't let this stop the innovation. Keep it at 20 fps, that's fine. Because all this time, the FPS has never really been our problem.

What's been our problem as FPS has climbed has been our ability to control the duration of the burst!

Select fire automatic weapons solved this problem decades ago, by offering single shot, full auto, and "3 shot burst". (this in a fully mechanical trigger system where this is a much more complicated mechanical solution to achieve that 3 shot burst)

So what we really want on our 20 fps e-shutter is a custom setting to choose a "burst mode" and to chose the specific number of frames for the duration of that burst. Set it to 3, 5 or 1, etc. Make this number fully variable, as unlike controlling the burst speed, the burst depth or duration is purely an electronic count.

Combine this with my dream two stage shutter, and all problems are solved!

This just what I think (that Canon engineers may have thought) when they set static 20 fps on ES.

1. Why would one go to ES? For the fps.
2. If someone wants lower fps than 20? switch to mechanical (or EFCS)

I am also wondering by slowing the fps on EC will magnify the rolling shutter effect. But I may be wrong.

So, possibly the purpose of the ES is to give you that highest 20fps possible when you actually want/need it and not other way around.

Just my 2c.

rndman wrote in post #19220033
I am also wondering by slowing the fps on EC will magnify the rolling shutter effect. But I may be wrong.

So, possibly the purpose of the ES is to give you that highest 20fps possible when you actually want/need it and not other way around.

Just my 2c.

Assuming the readout is fast enough for 1/8000 (0.125 ms), it would be easy enough to take one readout and then pause for 99ms before another readout of 0.125 ms, thereby capturing at 1/8000 shutter at a frame rate of 10 fps.
The pause time would be 49ms between 1/8000 shutter speed readouts to support 20fps
One merely has to 'pause' appropriate time between readouts, an interval which suits the shutter speed, to accomplish slower frame rates than 20fps.

The camera can cope with several video frame rates, and also allter the shutter speed to suit the lighting, Canon only needs to apply the same algorithm in the programming of still images, same as what it already does for video!

So Jake, the answer is that they will put it in the next version of camera, so they can sell a newer body to you...the R5II and the R6II!
Or that is the feature which always is only available in the R1 series, which also can do 30fps bursts not only for video but also stills

rndman wrote in post #19220033
..

I am also wondering by slowing the fps on EC will magnify the rolling shutter effect. But I may be wrong.

...

Never thought of that, but certainly plausible.

Slowing down the burst rate in ES won't do anything at all to the rolling shutter effect. Slowing down the burst rate doesn't require slowing down how the sensor is read out, instead it would introduce "shutter lag" in between each capture.

So... to capture a frame just like as 20fps but in 10fps mode, read out the sensor at the same rate as 20fps, but sleep twice as long before reading out the sensor again.

There shouldn't be any more EVF lag either from this.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19220253
Slowing down the burst rate in ES won't do anything at all to the rolling shutter effect. Slowing down the burst rate doesn't require slowing down how the sensor is read out, instead it would introduce "shutter lag" in between each capture.

So... to capture a frame just like as 20fps but in 10fps mode, read out the sensor at the same rate as 20fps, but sleep twice as long before reading out the sensor again.

There shouldn't be any more EVF lag either from this.

My post 12 describes same effect, in slowing down fps capture rate the readout of the sensor always happens during a fixed readout duration based upon the selected shutter speed.