6 states ban high-end gaming PCs

mike_d wrote in post #19319427
Then you have this: https://www.motorbiscu​it.com …ry-is-insanely-expensive/

And Chevy telling people to park 50' from anything because their batteries might spontaneously combust.

How about some recent citations?
About $5000 to replace a basic leaf battery now:
https://motorverso.com …battery-replacement-cost/ (scroll down)

Newer chemistries being tested in real-world conditions will eliminate the fire hazard and extend the range. The lithium iron phosphate batteries don't have the thermal-runaway:
https://www.acumentric​s.com …t-lithium-ion-chemistries

Chevy has a different take than what you wrote- for now, a software change avoids the problem until they get non-defective batteries.
https://www.chevrolet.​com/electric/bolt-recall

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19319440
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Well I've never paid more than $5,000 for any car or truck ever in my life, and I'm 53 and have bought lots of cars. . I can't afford to buy a car that is $6,000, let alone pay that much for just a battery. . I think electric cars will not be part of my future. . Ever. . I'll die before they become affordable for low income folks like myself.


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What makes you think batteries will stay that price? Used batteries cost a lot less, too.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19319436
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I've topped 1,000 in a day 8 times so far. My best day ever was 1,068 miles, back in 2017, going from the Philly suburbs to the Denver area.

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To me, "normal" day to day driving is when someone starts out at one place, and returns to the same place at the end of the day. . It's quite normal for someone to drive a few hundred miles in a day, in the course of their normal work. . I do this routinely with my funeral home job and with my firefighting job. . That is normal driving. . Road trips across thousands of miles, where you end the day far from where you started the day - that would qualify as not normal day to day driving in my view.


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I highlighted some text- the distance should be closer to 1700 miles. The distance between KPHL to KDEN (airports) is 1750 miles. Assuming 18 hours of driving time, that works out to roughly 95 mph- very impressive! The Philly suburbs don't allow very high speeds, so you need to go faster than 95 mph to make up some time.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19319462
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I highlighted some text- the distance should be closer to 1700 miles. The distance between KPHL to KDEN (airports) is 1750 miles. Assuming 18 hours of driving time, that works out to roughly 95 mph- very impressive! The Philly suburbs don't allow very high speeds, so you need to go faster than 95 mph to make up some time.
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I took a day and a half to drive from Philly to the Denver area. . On the first day I covered the first 1,068 miles of that trip. . I stopped somewhere along I-70 to sleep for the night. . I think it was in Kansas that I stopped. . Got to my destination on day two, in plenty of time to find the deer and take advantage of the early evening wildlife activity.

I never said that I covered the entire distance in one day. . Read my posts carefully. . I usually mean precisely what I say, not a thing more, and not a thing less. . I didn't say that I completed the trip in one day, so it should not be assumed.

When I leave for Denver from my place here in Washington, if I leave first thing in the morning, I like to get to Sheridan, Wyoming before stopping for he night. . I'm not sure at the moment just how many miles that is, but I'm pretty confident that that is beyond the capabilities of the electric car that was being discussed a few posts back.

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I like the idea of EVs, but the cost and range holds me back. I usually see a 300 mile range bandied about.
I have not done any research, but are these EV ranges under ideal driving conditions?
What about hot and cold weather driving when the a/c and heaters are used? My guess is that the range
will be a lot less.

Next year my new car will be a Prius or Corolla (perhaps hybrid).
Keeping my 2003 Tacoma - still runs great!

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #19319495
I like the idea of EVs, but the cost and range holds me back. I usually see a 300 mile range bandied about.
I have not done any research, but are these EV ranges under ideal driving conditions?
What about hot and cold weather driving when the a/c and heaters are used? My guess is that the range
will be a lot less.

Next year my new car will be a Prius or Corolla (perhaps hybrid).
Keeping my 2003 Tacoma - still runs great!

Advertised ranges are always under ideal circumstances. And much like the Prius, they do better in city driving where the speeds are lower and you don't burn fuel idling at stop lights. I have a 2008 4Runner which I hope to continue driving until they have range, charging, and cost issues sorted out.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19319492
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I took a day and a half to drive from Philly to the Denver area. . On the first day I covered the first 1,068 miles of that trip. . I stopped somewhere along I-70 to sleep for the night. . I think it was in Kansas that I stopped. . Got to my destination on day two, in plenty of time to find the deer and take advantage of the early evening wildlife activity.

I never said that I covered the entire distance in one day. . Read my posts carefully. . I usually mean precisely what I say, not a thing more, and not a thing less. . I didn't say that I completed the trip in one day, so it should not be assumed.

When I leave for Denver from my place here in Washington, if I leave first thing in the morning, I like to get to Sheridan, Wyoming before stopping for he night. . I'm not sure at the moment just how many miles that is, but I'm pretty confident that that is beyond the capabilities of the electric car that was being discussed a few posts back.

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Tom, we were discussing the distance you drove in a day. For your convenience, I've highlighted the comments below. That's why I was a bit incredulous about the distance and time between Philly and Denver. Something didn't make sense given our earlier conversation, either the distance or the time, or both, in this case. Read your posts carefully before posting for clarity. I believe in myself, so my interpretation of what you wrote is correct

950 miles is also beyond the range of any gasoline cars, but they fill faster. I'm assuming you live at KSEA (you are probably west of there, so the distance is less). A full charge and 2x 45 minute stops will get you there. The next generation of batteries will probably get you there about as fast as a gasoline car would- 2 to 3x the range, full charge time of around 20 minutes.

Here's one example- I've been following LiS batteries from the lab to here over many years:
https://lyten.com/

If you get 3x the range, you can get there with no stops compared to the eMustang.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19319297
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That seems okay for the kind of "normal, day to day" driving that people with structured lives and regular jobs do. . Could never work for me, as when I road trip my goal for each day is usually to cover 850 miles or thereabouts. . Then another 850 the next day. . Several times I've even topped 1,000 miles in a single day, and it feels so satisfying to cover that much ground so quickly, as it gives me more time to shoot when I get to my photography destination. . I'm always pushing to get to the shooting destination ASAP, so as to not miss any of the good light or good wildlife activity.

I mean, for summer deer photo trips, when I leave my place here in the morning, I MUST get to Aurora, Colorado, no later than 4 o'clock the next afternoon, so that I get the evening shoot in with the deer. . I need time to find the deer, and then still have enough time to photograph them for a couple hours while there is still enough light. . Just don't see how I could do that if I have to stop every 300 miles. . Ditto for southern Arizona wildlife trips.

And for summer Yellowstone trips, when I leave around 6 in the morning, I sure as heck better be in Yellowstone by 4 or 5 that afternoon, so that I can have a nice evening shoot with the Elk or Bears or Pika or whatever I find.

Can you carry an extra battery in the car, so that when the first runs down, you can just put the spare in? . You know, like we do with cameras? . If that's possible, then I could see such cars as viable, as long as it is feasible to carry a few fully charged spares around all the time. . Otherwise, you're bound to be inconvenienced at some point, sooner or later.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19319436
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I've topped 1,000 in a day 8 times so far. My best day ever was 1,068 miles, back in 2017, going from the Philly suburbs to the Denver area.

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To me, "normal" day to day driving is when someone starts out at one place, and returns to the same place at the end of the day. . It's quite normal for someone to drive a few hundred miles in a day, in the course of their normal work. . I do this routinely with my funeral home job and with my firefighting job. . That is normal driving. . Road trips across thousands of miles, where you end the day far from where you started the day - that would qualify as not normal day to day driving in my view.


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mike_d wrote in post #19319506
Advertised ranges are always under ideal circumstances. And much like the Prius, they do better in city driving where the speeds are lower and you don't burn fuel idling at stop lights. I have a 2008 4Runner which I hope to continue driving until they have range, charging, and cost issues sorted out.

Don't neglect regeneration. I rented a hybrid from Memphis to Oxford, MS and return. I remember using on the order of 2 gallons of gas over 138 miles.

I drive a 1/2 ton 4wd diesel pickup. Easy 550 miles of range before fill up in highway driving. I have to stop and use the bathroom by then anyway. Electric vehicles are not yet up to the kind of stuff I do but maybe sometime. But the cost to the environment is high, with rare earth mining and battery disposal and the plants needed to generate the electricity. Not as "green" as many folks think.

duckster wrote in post #19319529
I drive a 1/2 ton 4wd diesel pickup. Easy 550 miles of range before fill up in highway driving. I have to stop and use the bathroom by then anyway. Electric vehicles are not yet up to the kind of stuff I do but maybe sometime. But the cost to the environment is high, with rare earth mining and battery disposal and the plants needed to generate the electricity. Not as "green" as many folks think.

After we settle on a few battery chemistries, they will recycle the batteries. We recycle over 99% of lead-acid batteries in the USA, and lithium batteries will be recycled, too.
E-vehicle manufacturers are well aware of the shortcomings of rare-earth elements and are working to reduce their use. Those parts can be recycled too, when needed.
https://www.reuters.co​m …earth-magnets-2021-07-19/
The internal combustion engine in your car converts only about 1/3 of the energy in your fuel to to motion. Electric cars convert ~77% of the power to motion. The powerplants need not burn fossil fuels.
https://www.fueleconom​y.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
Combined cycle powerplants are around 60% efficient:
https://www.ge.com …r-plant-efficiency-record

0.6*0.7 -> 0.42, 42% efficient, better than the internal combustion engine.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19319600
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0.6*0.7 -> 0.42, 42% efficient, better than the internal combustion engine.
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As long as that increased efficiency eventually results in getting places more quickly, with no inconveniences at all, and cheaper price of entry and also cheaper cost of operating, then I'll be all for it. . But until we reach that point, it'll be better for me to stick with what I have.

Just like with cameras, most folks are not willing to accept a disadvantage or two in order to gain many new advantages. . I mean, mirrorless cameras didn't really take hold until ALL of the disadvantages were overcome. . So as long as there is even a single, small disadvantage with the electric car technology, don't expect people to embrace them entirely. . It is human nature to want all of the pros and no cons whatsoever. . We want it all!

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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19319637
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As long as that increased efficiency eventually results in getting places more quickly, with no inconveniences at all, and cheaper price of entry and also cheaper cost of operating, then I'll be all for it. . But until we reach that point, it'll be better for me to stick with what I have.

More quickly? Our roads are designed for various speed limits. I don't see a Mustang or Camaro getting anywhere faster than the person driving an Accord. I really don't know why you think an e-car can get anywhere faster other than current charging times.

Operating costs? Fewer moving parts makes for a more reliable machine. No oil changes. Most people can just recharge every couple of weeks at home, so no stops at a gas station, so more convenient. Battery chemistry is still improving and getting cheaper. Some batteries being tested now can recharge in 10 minutes and have greater energy density those being used now. If someone has only drives low mileage with their car, an e-car is far more reliable.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19319637
Just like with cameras, most folks are not willing to accept a disadvantage or two in order to gain many new advantages. . I mean, mirrorless cameras didn't really take hold until ALL of the disadvantages were overcome. . So as long as there is even a single, small disadvantage with the electric car technology, don't expect people to embrace them entirely. . It is human nature to want all of the pros and no cons whatsoever. . We want it all!

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Mirrorless cameras still generally don't have a global shutter, the DLSR shows much fewer movement artifacts such as bent propellers. That's a disadvantage that still exists in the R5, R6, and R3. Enough people find electric cars meet their needs as well internal combustion engines.

I'm not ready to jump into the technology because there's still some significant improvements in e-cars coming. Why get a 300 mile range car when I likely can get a 900 mile car that I recharge every 6 weeks?

Capn Jack wrote in post #19319648
Mirrorless cameras still generally don't have a global shutter, the DLSR shows much fewer movement artifacts such as bent propellers. That's a disadvantage that still exists in the R5, R6, and R3. Enough people find electric cars meet their needs as well internal combustion engines.

But they do still have the option of mechanical shutter (the factor that can mitigate those rolling shutter artifacts). HDSLRs have always had electronic shutters for video: they need a faster speed than what the focal plane shutter can handle (and why cinema cameras can be preferred for having mechanical rotary shutters). I suppose there can be a segment of folks wanting to just rely on e-shutter for no potential lag in viewfinder or faster burst speeds.

As for the discussion about electric cars, I do see a lot of Teslas in Atlanta. Tesla is trying to get more super charge stations spread out in the US. However, hearing from EV evangelists....if you're in a rural area, you're more than likely going to have to spend some time recharging your car at a RV camp. I have a Prius which I'll probably drive until it dies. Afterward, I might look into getting an electric car and charging station (although by then, I don't know if there will be as many deductions/incentives for getting a home station). Most of the time, range isn't an issue...as no matter how much driving I do in Atlanta isn't a full range of a Leaf or Tesla. However, long range is currently tricky. My folks live in Asheville, and they have neighbors who have a daughter who lives in Atlanta. They say she has to be sure her Tesla is fully charged before going to Asheville. And then when she's visiting, it takes 2 days for her car to fully charge on just a regular 120V adapter.

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Capn Jack wrote in post #19319648
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More quickly? I really don't know why you think an e-car can get anywhere faster other than current charging times.
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Well of course I am talking about charging times. . What else would I mean? . I cannot imagine the inconvenience of having to wait half an hour for a car to recharge. . Sheesh!

My Corolla only gets 430 miles on a tank of gasoline. . It absolutely kills me that every 400 miles or so, I have to exit the highway, drive a half mile to the gas station, put my card in the slot, enter a PIN, then pump the gas 'till the tank is full, then drive back to the highway and get back up to speed. . That 6 or 7 minutes seems like an eternity, and I calculate the number of miles I could have covered if I hadn't had to stop for fuel. . Now if you take that stop and increase it to 20 or 25 minutes, I would go out of my mind with impatience. . No way that cross country road trips should need to be delayed that much. . Unacceptable!
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Capn Jack wrote in post #19319648
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Operating costs? Fewer moving parts makes for a more reliable machine. No oil changes. Most people can just recharge every couple of weeks at home, so no stops at a gas station, so more convenient.
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If the cost of electricity for charging up is less than the cost of gasoline, then I like that a lot!

Charging up at home wouldn't be very frequent, as I live a lot of my life away from home. . So I would have to find charging stations wherever they may be near the wilderness areas that I frequent and along the highways when road-tripping form one area of the country to another. . Hopefully the charging stations don't charge an arm and a leg for the right to plug in.
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Capn Jack wrote in post #19319648
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Battery chemistry is still improving and getting cheaper. Some batteries being tested now can recharge in 10 minutes and have greater energy density those being used now.
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That's great! I am pretty much a bottom feeder when it comes to any kind of expensive items, such as cameras and cars. . I have very little income, and therefore need to buy old mnodels, often years after they are discontinued. . For example, I look forward to getting a Canon R5 in 2025 or 2026, when they are available on the used market for about $1,200. . When it comes to cars, $5,000 is absolute tops for me, and $3,500 is more realistic. . And then when I get a car for $3,500 - $5,000, I need it to last for about 6 years and 200,000 miles with an absolute minimum of repairs. . The last 4 cars I have owned have been older gasoline powered Toyota Corollas, and they meet these requirements quite nicely.

Given those budget constraints, when do you think electric cars in reliable condition will come down to the level I can afford? . 6 years? . 10 years? . 12 years?

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By continually downplaying the disadvantages of electric cars, it seems that you are hell bent on convincing me that electric cars are right for me and my usage / demands. . Can you please just accept that they are not as good for me as my current car, all things considered? . You do realize that not all people are the same, and that not everyone wants the same things in a car, don't you?

EDIT:

This is the last 24 months of my life (Google timeline map below), and the travel is only going to increase over the next 24 months. . Often times, when I go from one place to another, I have this "get there as rapidly as possible, every single minute saved matters so very much!" kind of attitude. . Given that, can you understand why I would be hampered by something that requires 30 minutes to charge up after going just 300 miles?

How is home recharging supposed to work for the millions of people without a secure place (and a 50A outlet) to recharge? It's pretty easy to just say "charge at home" when you own a house with a garage with sufficient power.

mike_d wrote in post #19319687
How is home recharging supposed to work for the millions of people without a secure place (and a 50A outlet) to recharge? It's pretty easy to just say "charge at home" when you own a house with a garage with sufficient power.

My answer is going be harsh, but they will probably be screwed. Many of those people are low-income, and it has always been hard for them to get new or nice things.

I just worked at my employer's site in New York, and they had e-car chargers there, so that is a possibility.

As you asked the question, do you have any ideas to help with the problem?