Canon and future of DSLR's

So you can't put ef on the m50

EF can be used on any canon dslr and mirrorless.

EFS can be used on almost every APSC dslr, and then on the EFM and RF bodies.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19325637
My FF mirrorless can
- use IBIS with all my non IS lenses
- show me my exposure in the VF before I even take a shot
- focus peak for my manual lenses and macro shots, superior to OVF manual focusing
- do eye and object AF and tracking
- shoot 20fps
- use all of my EF and EFS lenses
- show me the scene even in nearly total darkness through the VF
- allow me the luxury to review images even in the brightest of days with overhead sun
- allow fully working AF with my 100-400 and 1.4 or 2x or other very slow combinations that even give a 1d series fits
- no need so far for AFMA


My DSLR FF canon do any of these things.

This is very true. However, a DSLR is an extremely capable camera and can take shots like this ALL DAY LONG with the good AF systems found on 1Dx2,1Dx3 and 5D4 bodies.....I think many like me just dont need all the bells and whistles that others convince themselves that they do need. I dont need any of that stuff to capture nice images like this. And I shoot in some very difficult lighting all the time. Sure , Eye focus would be nice. But its a luxury, not a necessity and it dam sure is no reason to dump an entire line up and force everyone to buy R mount bodies that are not needed for most people. You are a good photographer. Do you really need all that and need to spend upwards of 10k just to have a camera with eye focus....You shot really nice images before you had all these mirrorless features.....these are straight off camera captured images

Not saying the dslr can’t be successful, I still have one. The mirrorless just extends usability and capability that will never be in the dslr.

umphotography wrote in post #19325398
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The bar of entry was just lowered. You didnt need a light meter and you could control all settings and shoot at 1200 ISO. All i needed to learn was photoshop-----and you could see what the image was instantly and how to adjust instantly

Welcome to 2022....The bar of entry to photography has now been lowered again. You dont need to know how to focus or how to set up a camera to take action shots, BIF shots...or understand exposure or the photography triangle...The camera does it for you. Full auto on the camera with eye focus and you are ready to go. All you need to be able to do is to be willing to open the wallet and be willing to toss a credit card to the salesman....you are now a professional photographer. Its not going to be hard to add programming to these mirrorless cameras and have a sports mode> car or motorcycle> panning effect> freeze effect> make the selection you want and go shoot......Its going to be that simple. All the MFG's want to do is make the camera easier and for you to buy Expensive glass
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But modern super-capable mirrorless gear doesn't do anything to help with the things that truly define a "good photographer".

Truly good photography is not the result of technical image quality, but rather the result of creative artistic vision. . Figuring out what exactly it is about your subject that you want to showcase in your photos, and how to showcase those attributes, is what good photography is all about. . Also knowing what supporting elements to include in your compositions, and how they should be sized relative to the subject, is of utmost importance. . And of course knowing what mood and/or feeling that you want to convey in any particular image that you take. . And thinking about how a viewer's eye will move across the frame, and how to compose the scene with that aspect of the viewer's experience in mind ...... Gear doesn't do any of that.

All that the gear does for us is to get the boring technical stuff like focus and exposure right, so that we can focus ourselves on all of the other things that actually take vision and thought.

I cringe at the thought of a professional photographer thinking that what separates him/her from the hobbyists and snapshooters is his/her ability to expose properly and focus accurately. .My gosh! . Those things don't have anything to do with artistic vision or building a composition or color theory or subject/background alignment or evoking emotion or expressing a mood or any of the other things that actually mean something.

Truly compelling photography isn't about getting things in proper focus and exposed properly ..... that's just the easy basic stuff. . Good photography is so much more than those superficial beginner things. . There is so much more that a photographer should be concerned with when they are shooting, so it would be helpful to have gear do those technical things for us, so that we can put 100% of our brainpower into the artistic, creative parts of the photographic process - the things that actually matter.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19325807
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But modern super-capable mirrorless gear doesn't do anything to help with the things that truly define a "good photographer".


Truly compelling photography isn't about getting things in proper focus and exposed properly ..... that's just the easy basic stuff. . Good photography is so much more than those superficial beginner things. . There is so much more that a photographer should be concerned with when they are shooting, so it would be helpful to have gear do those technical things for us, so that we can put 100% of our brainpower into the artistic, creative parts of the photographic process - the things that actually matter.

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Really Tom

With much respect to you...thats a load of BS

It sounds wonderful in a photography forum about gear. But from the perspective of a sports/wildlife and wedding photographer.....with 40+ years of experience with a camera....and 600+ weddings......Timing and exposure is everything....composit​ion often comes with the territory, experience, and being present at a scene.....and the big artistic wow factors come from post processing and has nothing to do with the camera that took the image. No One shows much straight off camera work. Im probably the exception as I do little to nothing in post processing for 95% of my images. Artistic skills and post processing go hand in hand......so yeah I disagree with your thoughts

I am a hobbyist and do quite a bit of sports. For me the ML cameras have improved my hit/keeper rate, sometimes quite a bit depending on the situation.

umphotography wrote in post #19325835
Really Tom

With much respect to you...thats a load of BS

It sounds wonderful in a photography forum about gear. But from the perspective of a sports/wildlife and wedding photographer.....with 40+ years of experience with a camera....and 600+ weddings......Timing and exposure is everything....composit​ion often comes with the territory, experience, and being present at a scene.....and the big artistic wow factors come from post processing and has nothing to do with the camera that took the image. No One shows much straight off camera work. Im probably the exception as I do little to nothing in post processing for 95% of my images. Artistic skills and post processing go hand in hand......so yeah I disagree with your thoughts

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Mike,

You say that you disagree with my thoughts. . Yet almost everything you said in your response to me was in total agreement with my thoughts. . Did you fail to understand what I was saying in the post that you responded to?


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There is much more to photography than just getting your subject correct. There is the entire digital darkroom that comes into play and many times photographic final results are made in that digital post processing. Newer cameras deliver results that enhance this digital processing after the shot was taken.

Let’s also get into the fact that mirrorless gives you faster bursts giving you the ability to get that perfect animal pose.

The cameras are tools to an end, and newer cameras are better tools, which includes the capabilities of mirrorless.

gjl711 wrote in post #19325712
I suspect the M mount cameras were an interim solution when Canon recognized that they were seriously behind in mirrorless development. I would be surprised if they continued to expand the M mount lineup. I believe the last M mount lens was introduced in 2018 and I have not sen any rumors of any new ones in the works.

The 'interim' solution has proven to be tremendously popular selection in Canon's own home country market!
https://www.thephoblog​rapher.com …-popular-cameras-but-why/
https://www.canonwatch​.com …an-eos-m50-stable-on-top/
That is what is behind a several years debate about APS-C sized mirrorless sensor...M mount vs. R mount.

I really want a mirrorless camera.

I'm excited about modern EVFs. I'm drooling over a bright viewfinder at any aperature that shows sensor-level exposure feedback and a variety of selectable readout overlays.

I'm excited about slow but affordable super-zoom and telephoto lenses. (Anyone tried the 600mm f/11? Is it sharp at all?)

Feature-wise, everything else strikes me as the same, only better. Solid upgrade. I'm going to stay with Canon out of inertia. It may be the most friction-free choice, but a valid choice none the less.

Problem is, I can't afford the mirrorless cameras I want and don't want the ones I can afford.

I have three last-model DSLRs; 5Div, 6Dii and 90D. They are all great cameras and the pinnacle of 20+ years of research and development.

If my fingers are correct, I count 5 current FF offerings from Canon; R3, R5, R6, R, RP. Moving from, say, a 5Div to an R or RP seems like a step backwards. Mirrorless for mirrorless sake. The other three, while I'd upgrade to one of these in a heartbeat, are out of my price range. If all 5 lines continue, in a couple of years, each will be known as the 'Classic'.

I think I'll wait until then to make a decision, see how the market shakes out. I'll do fine with my DSLRs until then. Did I mention they're great cameras? (As an aside, I paid less for all 3 of my current DSLRs, total, than a used R6 goes for today - if you can find a used one for sale.)

Good assessment, drsilver! Pretty much where I am at, myself!
Having suffered the 30% compounded annual depreciation of the dSLR thru its development, I am more reluctant in retirement to part with dollars too soon...R6 might be closer to the ballpark, but still sizeable chunk of change to ride the depreciation train again. Waiting for more mature products, when the early models don't quite fit the bill, is often the right approach. For those who do not mind going along for that ride, terrific...have fun sooner!

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19325709
The R, Rp, R5, R6, and R3 are RF Mount, and yes there are adapters that allow EF and EFS lenses to mounted. No, there is no way to use EFM lenses on the R bodies and no way to use RF lenses on the M series.

But you can use EF mount lenses on a M-Series body via an adapter.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19325879
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Mike,

You say that you disagree with my thoughts. . Yet almost everything you said in your response to me was in total agreement with my thoughts. . Did you fail to understand what I was saying in the post that you responded to?

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Yes just re read your comment. I missed the word doesnt so I misinterpreted what you said

And thats exactly my point

What I read teamspeed saying , and others, is that mirrorless is better because you can get 30 shots on an electric shutter and pick out the best shot...wth...how is that or the equipment making you a better photographer.....it is not....its basically automatic eye focus and automatic spray and prey. The only skill set you need is a credit card and to open and read an owners manual......My 1Dx2 does 14fps....I have never done a 14 frame burst when Im in the field shooting. I get pretty good shots. Why do I need a mirrorless that does 30......I reading posts from guys that fill a 64mb card in about 2-3 hours..1500 images ...thats insane. Its darn sure not controlled thought out photography........May​be im showing my age

drsilver wrote in post #19325901
I really want a mirrorless camera.

I'm excited about modern EVFs. I'm drooling over a bright viewfinder at any aperature that shows sensor-level exposure feedback and a variety of selectable readout overlays.

I'm excited about slow but affordable super-zoom and telephoto lenses. (Anyone tried the 600mm f/11? Is it sharp at all?)

Feature-wise, everything else strikes me as the same, only better. Solid upgrade. I'm going to stay with Canon out of inertia. It may be the most friction-free choice, but a valid choice none the less.

Problem is, I can't afford the mirrorless cameras I want and don't want the ones I can afford.

I have three last-model DSLRs; 5Div, 6Dii and 90D. They are all great cameras and the pinnacle of 20+ years of research and development.

If my fingers are correct, I count 5 current FF offerings from Canon; R3, R5, R6, R, RP. Moving from, say, a 5Div to an R or RP seems like a step backwards. Mirrorless for mirrorless sake. The other three, while I'd upgrade to one of these in a heartbeat, are out of my price range. If all 5 lines continue, in a couple of years, each will be known as the 'Classic'.

I think I'll wait until then to make a decision, see how the market shakes out. I'll do fine with my DSLRs until then. Did I mention they're great cameras? (As an aside, I paid less for all 3 of my current DSLRs, total, than a used R6 goes for today - if you can find a used one for sale.)

I am further along the path in my conversion completely to mirrorless. I started with the original EOS M that I got on a closeout sale, along with an EF-M 22mm pancake lens. I loved to compactness, but the body was really lacking in several areas -- very poor auto focus, no viewfinder, etc. Later on, I picked up a M50,body and this -- along with a few EF-M lenses -- became my compact travel kit that I still use when I want to travel light.

On the dSLR end, two years ago I picked up a EOS R + RF 24-105L lens during a great holiday sale (my EF 24-105L's image stabilization was acting wonky). I found that I was using the R all the time (my EF lenses worked wonderfully), and my 5D3 and 7D2 sat unused for the next year. I ended up selling those two bodies, and banked the money until I decided what other body to add (and hopefully for prices to drop, but that hasn't happened). Over the past couple of months, I have sold all my EF lenses except the 100-400L II and 1.4x TC.

So, my final step will be to add another body -- probably the R6, as the R5 is more than I want to spend. For lenses, I have added a RF 50mm f/1.8 and RF 35mm f/1.8. I wanted to upgrade the 100-400L to the RF 100-500L, but the delta is more than I want to spend. So my next lenses will be a RF 800mm f/11 and RF 14-35mm f/4 (I sold my EF 16-35mm f/4). When Canon finally announces a mirrorless replacement for the 7D2, I will eventually get that and probably sell the EOS R (if it's worth anything used at that point).