Canon: DSLR's will live on...except the flagship 1DX series

kf095 wrote in post #19378498
IBIS helps with very static objects. Even for family pictures which are not 18th century style pictures, but people been alive and moving IBIS doesn't bring much. Maybe at long tele... But they say lens IS might works better on tele.

Noise reduction is only better on high ISO. But flash on low ISO still leaves high ISO in the dust. High ISO is still inferior to low ISO. Mirrorless or less mirrorless. Some are realizing how better low ISO is on old DLSR bodies. Clean high ISO is dual sides sword, apparently.

Lighter body? It is often only gimmicks. To match capability of DSLR on single battery, Canon mirrorless needs battery grip. Canon RP is failure comparing to Sony A7C on battery live, but Sony A7C has next to unusable EVF. It is so tiny.

Eye focusing? Do you know Canon has it in film SLR? Prosumer and Pro. I had Pro body with large AF covering and prosumer now with much less. Both are noting special and surprisingly doesn't improve photography much.

I think you mean "eye controlled focusing" and not "eye tracking focusing"?

Capn Jack wrote in post #19378500
I think you mean "eye controlled focusing" and not "eye tracking focusing"?

That was in the EOS-5 and ELAN. I tried it in the ELAN and though it worked, seemed more of a gimic than something useful. HERE is some info on it.

peteraustralia2021 wrote in post #19378421
IBIS system? Faster focusing lens, also better noise reduction? Lighter body?

I will give you IBIS. That along with version 2 lens gives you about 7 stops according to canon. Thats great for guys like me who dont want to use a tripod

But I get 5 stops now with a version 2 lens. 2 stops is not a huge decision swayer for anyone

I dont believe RF lens are faster focusing than EF L version 2 lens. I used a Rf50 and RF 24-105...I did not see anything faster....I think thats all in your head

Lastly Noise reduction.....No way can you make the claim. Thats BS. The best sensor is the R6...Canons 1Dx3 is ridiculously clean as well....cleaner than the R5....I have not seen any R3 v/s R6 v/s 1Dx3 comparisons....NONE...​.and any comparison is going to fall to the pixel and it will be negligible

There is no gain in sensor performance with a mirrorless camera.....show me one comparison that proves this...there are none by any reliable tester that I know of

kf095 wrote in post #19378498
Eye focusing? Do you know Canon has it in film SLR? Prosumer and Pro. I had Pro body with large AF covering and prosumer now with much less. Both are noting special and surprisingly doesn't improve photography much.

No, i dont know but i am happy to learn about it.
The evf will do all the job for you. So you wont be distracted by the surrounding factors. Just point and shoot. And pay more attention on the photo content.

kf095 wrote in post #19378498
Noise reduction is only better on high ISO. But flash on low ISO still leaves high ISO in the dust. High ISO is still inferior to low ISO. Mirrorless or less mirrorless. Some are realizing how better low ISO is on old DLSR bodies. Clean high ISO is dual sides sword, apparently.

You are not wrong to say that but you just clarify my point.
Smaller iso need slower shutter speed (or bigger apature) to make the object and background brighter or else you need to pump up the iso (plus higher shutter speed) to compensate for the camera’s instability at slow shutter speed. Thats why you need IBIS

And yet its not deniable to say that you dont need ibis for daylight moving objects, how about afternoon and night time with small apature?

umphotography wrote in post #19378516
There is no gain in sensor performance with a mirrorless camera.....show me one comparison that proves this...there are none by any reliable tester that I know of

true, i dont own any mirroless atm, just my phone is the only mirroless that i have.
And thank for clarifying all the tech info for me.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19378444
Is there any reason IBIS, faster lens focus, and noise reduction can't be in an SLR?
I thought someone claimed mirrorless picked subjects slower than SLR, but I can't find the post now. Many of the pictures I see, especially agile birds, seem to suggest mirrorless focus is fast enough.

Well at least for IBIS, no. Pentax DSLRs have had IBIS since 2009.

As for mirrorless picking subjects, ie, AF acquisition speed, I say it's slower.
PDAF still has 3 advantages:
1/ Acquisition speed
2/When subject is very out of focus, eg, when changing from a subject near infinity to a subject closer to MFD
3/ Precision, specifically, true spot focus compared to mirrorless offering a small area.

Once target has been acquired, mirrorless tend to stick like velcro.

Choderboy wrote in post #19378662
Well at least for IBIS, no. Pentax DSLRs have had IBIS since 2009.

As for mirrorless picking subjects, ie, AF acquisition speed, I say it's slower.
PDAF still has 3 advantages:
1/ Acquisition speed
2/When subject is very out of focus, eg, when changing from a subject near infinity to a subject closer to MFD
3/ Precision, specifically, true spot focus compared to mirrorless offering a small area.

Once target has been acquired, mirrorless tend to stick like velcro.

PDAF = phase detection auto focus?
If so, Canon mirrorless cameras have it! Dual pixel AF is phase detection autofocus.
https://www.androidaut​hority.com …ofocus-explained-1102293/
Other manufacturers have different variations of mirrorless phase detection autofocus.
https://www.digitalcam​eraworld.com …f-and-why-is-it-important

With pro body I had no problem to track moving objects with my eye.
Tracking eye of moving object, not sure if it adds any significance to me. I'm not in the shallow dof church for portraits and reportage.

peteraustralia2021 wrote in post #19378522
No, i dont know but i am happy to learn about it.
The evf will do all the job for you. So you wont be distracted by the surrounding factors. Just point and shoot. And pay more attention on the photo content.

You are not wrong to say that but you just clarify my point.
Smaller iso need slower shutter speed (or bigger apature) to make the object and background brighter or else you need to pump up the iso (plus higher shutter speed) to compensate for the camera’s instability at slow shutter speed. Thats why you need IBIS

And yet its not deniable to say that you dont need ibis for daylight moving objects, how about afternoon and night time with small apature?

Wait, this is what I have always done with OVF. It is way more superior (for me) on non been distractive for P&S and obviously for the content. Wirth Canon R series EVF I have odd representation of reality under very low light, EFV stumbling on moving objects, shutter release and vague panning.
Leica makes most expensive OVF cameras and were is waiting time to get them. Fuji is the leader on this to me, they have hybrid, OFV/EVF cameras.

If I have object so slow or nor moving, IS in the lens does the same to me. In fact I prefer IS in the lens, rather than IBIS in the long term.

And I'm one of the remaining few of us who isn't shy on flash In low light, I freeze the motion, balance with incident light and keep relatively low ISO. Win-win to me. Just a single, TTL, bounced flash works for me.

Nor I'm limited on tripod handling where I rarely needed it. I take handheld photos even if sun is down.

kf095 wrote in post #19378678
And I'm one of the remaining few of us who isn't shy on flash In low light, I freeze the motion, balance with incident light and keep relatively low ISO. Win-win to me. Just a single, TTL, bounced flash works for me.

Nor I'm limited on tripod handling where I rarely needed it. I take handheld photos even if sun is down.

Bingo- we are in the exact boat. I got a bad bad taste for mirrorless with the EOS R at weddings in low light....USELESS CAMERA...Now im told the R6 &R5 are notably better but not perfect....My 1Dx2 is a beast in the dark. I now start at 6400 ISO at receptions. I dont care where shutter lands, TTL at -1 nets me perfect photos 95% of the time....and the 1Dx series camera Never fail to lock in low light, especially if subjects move and your in servo....Mirrorless with my limited experience does not do as well...This is my last summer shooting professionally as I am retiring. I will be a part time wildlife hobbiest .....I have no need to reinvest in mirrorless when the top of the line DSLR's are so good. I am interested in this rumored R7 if it comes for fruition....The R3 is just too expensive for me to get into when I have so many other interests for my retirement years. If necessary, I will get a 1Dx3 before they stop making them...they are excellent and they do anything a mirrorless can do except auto eye focus

umphotography wrote in post #19378688
...This is my last summer shooting professionally as I am retiring. I will be a part time wildlife hobbiest .....I have no need to reinvest in mirrorless when the top of the line DSLR's are so good. I am interested in this rumored R7 if it comes for fruition....The R3 is just too expensive for me to get into when I have so many other interests for my retirement years. If necessary, I will get a 1Dx3 before they stop making them...they are excellent and they do anything a mirrorless can do except auto eye focus

I'm much in the same boat but with different cameras. The 5DIV for me is about as perfect as a camera that I can hope for. There is nothing else I need in a camera. All the new ones are nice and I would love a mirrorless, but none are going to address any shortcoming I currently have. Maybe that's one of the reasons of the decline in SLR sales. The current SLRs are so good that no one is upgrading as there is no need for most. Couple that with the fact that SLRs are seen as an old people camera, you have a saturated market with no growth path.

kf095 wrote in post #19378678
Wait, this is what I have always done with OVF. It is way more superior (for me) on non been distractive for P&S and obviously for the content. Wirth Canon R series EVF I have odd representation of reality under very low light, EFV stumbling on moving objects, shutter release and vague panning.
Leica makes most expensive OVF cameras and were is waiting time to get them. Fuji is the leader on this to me, they have hybrid, OFV/EVF cameras.

Interesting to learn … i am a bit curios on the way they capture the moving objects with the limiting focus points comparing to evf.

With EVF, you just point at the object, compose then shoot, just by one hand (not busy with hand adjustment). Also if you have a difficulty in viewing the object at low light, you can use Led light to illuminate the object (or just simply increase the exposure in camera, the whole scene will be automatically brightened up)

But you already had R with you so you probably know more than me.

I shoot stay still object most of the time, not moving objects like birds or vehicles. So probably it fit my purpose more than you

kf095 wrote in post #19378678
And I'm one of the remaining few of us who isn't shy on flash In low light, I freeze the motion, balance with incident light and keep relatively low ISO. Win-win to me. Just a single, TTL, bounced flash works for me.

Nor I'm limited on tripod handling where I rarely needed it. I take handheld photos even if sun is down.

you can freeze the motion at high shutter speed with flash to maintain the proper exposure on the object but the light for the background at the low light wont be sufficient enough to be illuminated comparing to the powerful flash source at high shutter speed. (In other word, you destroyed the beautiful color background at night time with high shutter speed). Tripod is not the bad idea to keep your camera staying stable (i did it as well) but it will make your camera bag heavier lolz Ibis will save you some weight + space for your luggage unless you want to do long exposure.

gjl711 wrote in post #19378693
Maybe that's one of the reasons of the decline in SLR sales. The current SLRs are so good that no one is upgrading as there is no need for most. Couple that with the fact that SLRs are seen as an old people camera, you have a saturated market with no growth path.

Exactly why Canon and otber MFG went mirrorless.....they put the advanced auto eye focus technology into these ( not cameras) modified video machines

umphotography wrote in post #19378705
Exactly why Canon and otber MFG went mirrorless.....they put the advanced auto eye focus technology into these ( not cameras) modified video machines

...make a market, when one does not otherwise have a large enough sales volume

It is what Sony tried to do after the mirrorless market peaked in 2012...separate in the public eye the FF mirrorless from 4/3 format mirrorless.

As CIPA figures show, that goal still has never surpassed that peak... the mirrorless volume still does not match the Unit count in 2012 (although the numbers seem to indicate a relative peak for mirrorless in 2018). Total camera volume is about the same as in 2003, close to the start of the digital camera surge, in an industry whose volume started churning for over a decade with sensor improvement evolution in dSLRs; the industry is in desparation, and needs to make a perceived need!

umphotography wrote in post #19378688
Bingo- we are in the exact boat. I got a bad bad taste for mirrorless with the EOS R at weddings in low light....USELESS CAMERA...Now im told the R6 &R5 are notably better but not perfect....My 1Dx2 is a beast in the dark. I now start at 6400 ISO at receptions. I dont care where shutter lands, TTL at -1 nets me perfect photos 95% of the time....and the 1Dx series camera Never fail to lock in low light, especially if subjects move and your in servo....Mirrorless with my limited experience does not do as well...This is my last summer shooting professionally as I am retiring. I will be a part time wildlife hobbiest .....I have no need to reinvest in mirrorless when the top of the line DSLR's are so good. I am interested in this rumored R7 if it comes for fruition....The R3 is just too expensive for me to get into when I have so many other interests for my retirement years. If necessary, I will get a 1Dx3 before they stop making them...they are excellent and they do anything a mirrorless can do except auto eye focus

I'm just in the dinghy, comparing to your boat But Canon Canada Ambassador, Toronto Star photogs and fashion, major brands, portrait photographer I know were using Canon DSLRs in 2021.
I went on event yesterday and while where was more amateurs with mirrorless, those who were accredited where still with DSLRs and white, red ring lenses . I'm finding big difference between mirrorless hype on gear forums and what I see in hands and in use in the real world. Canon is also aware of this and this is why they declined rumors on DSLR production ending.