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Thread started 24 Feb 2022 (Thursday) 17:51
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DxO PureRAW (DeepPRIME) test on ISO25600 image and NN considerations

 
_GUI_
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Post edited over 1 year ago by _GUI_.
     
Feb 24, 2022 17:51 |  #1

Nobody testing DxO PureRAW seems to care about how much detail the neural network "invents", they just throw a noisy RAW file and look at the result -> WOW!
To find out we need a noiseless version of the scene and compare it with the result output from DxO PureRAW (DeepPRIME) when applied to a noisy version of the same scene.

Scene:
http://guillermoluijk.​com/misc/dxoprimeescen​a.jpg (external link)

100% crops test (LEFT: noiseless capture, CENTRE: noisy capture, RIGHT: processed noisy capture):
http://guillermoluijk.​com/misc/dxopureraw.jp​g (external link)

Just comparing the output (right) with the noisy unprocessed capture (centre), the result is awesome, but when we look at the original scene some considerations have to be made:
1. Text masked by noise is cleaned, but its lines and traces are not recovered, as expected.
2. The most interesting spot: the neural network interprets and creates non existent edges and shaded facets, which are feasible looking at the noisy image but didn't exist in the scene
3. The neural network tends to simplify complex structures: the carvings on the leather mask are a series of curves but are interpreted more like linear shapes
4. Fine detail in the scene, completely lost in the noisy shot, is lost and interpreted as a plain colour area (with some fine gaussian-like grain at pixel level)
5. Flat colours are very well recovered, as would be with most noise reduction procedures

In the real world, this kind of software will be used without being able to compare with the real detail, so most photographers will consider valid all the fake detail recreated by the NN.
But watch out! those clean of noise feathers could belong to some other bird, not exactly the one you photographed.

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Dave3222
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Feb 24, 2022 19:41 |  #2

Very interesting. Are you planning on evaluating any other noise reduction software?




  
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RodneyCyr
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Feb 24, 2022 20:59 |  #3

The OP proposed an interesting test that I may try soon.

I find the greatest value in DxO Deep Prime to be in eliminating obvious ISO noise, rather than by increasing apparent detail (which it does not.) The software actually seems to make ISO 25600 images usable, but actually softens the images slightly while improving color rendition. I have also tried underexposing one stop and pushing it back up in post, thereby simulating ISO 51200. Results are marginal, but useful if I am desperate. ISO 102400 is hopeless, however.

My camera, noted below, is an 80D. My software is DxOLab version 5, not DxO PureRAW, but I assume the algorithms are the same.


Canon 80D, 60D, Canon 10-22EFs, 15-85EFS IS, Sigma 100-400, Sigma 135/1.8ART, Sigma 30mm f/1.4DC, Canon 60mm EFs Macro, Rokinon 8mm fisheye, 550EX flash, Olympus TG6 underwater P&S
Postprocessing: DxOLabs 5, DxO Viewpoint 3, Paint Shop Pro 2021
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_GUI_
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Feb 25, 2022 11:15 |  #4

Dave3222 wrote in post #19348663 (external link)
Very interesting. Are you planning on evaluating any other noise reduction software?

Comparison with Topaz Denoise AI (RAW mode with default noise reduction and detail enhancement):

http://guillermoluijk.​com/misc/dxopurerawvst​opaz.jpg (external link)

I would stay with DxO PureRAW. Topaz seems to have a more black-box neural network output (I could see some Google Tensorflow libraries loading during the installation), going beyond in texture recreation but for the same reason making more mistakes and creating more fake detail. In the text test the result of Topaz is very bad, and the colour patches are noisier.

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TeamSpeed
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Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. (6 edits in all)
     
Feb 25, 2022 11:43 |  #5

Looks interesting... For now I continue to use my own Photoshop actions/recipes for NR, and I can clean up 1-2 stops of noise at very little loss to detail using various filters and Noiseware actions recorded as different actions (low, mid and high ISO actions by camera body). What makes my actions different than most others post processing techniques is that I design these actions per camera model, and each color channel is processed differntly.

I will likely migrate to these newer models in coming years though, but today's bodies are quite good and need even less processing than bodies just 5 years ago or older, and I will continue to milk my CS5 and Noiseware for as long as I can at no cost to me annually.

5d4 at 12800, 100% crop, before and after... as an example of a quickly executed action on the file:
https://teamspeed.smug​mug.com …nics/5D4-Misc/i-zBVRkPH/A (external link)

5d3 at 25600, 100% crop, before and after
https://teamspeed.smug​mug.com …/5D3-High-ISO/i-hbBGxwk/A (external link)

I would love to run some of my files through the DXO and then compare to what my PS actions are doing. Is there an evaluation copy of this?


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_GUI_
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Feb 25, 2022 13:32 |  #6

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19348924 (external link)
Is there an evaluation copy of this?

Sure, there is a free 30-day trial version (no watermarks nor limitations):

https://www.dxo.com/dx​o-pureraw/download/ (external link)

There is also a non expiring Topaz evaluation version with a huge disgusting watermark:

https://www.topazlabs.​com/denoise-ai (external link)

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_GUI_
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Post edited over 1 year ago by _GUI_. (3 edits in all)
     
Feb 28, 2022 17:50 |  #7

I wanted to numerically measure the DR enhancement provided by DxO PureRAW. I have shot an IT8 at ISO25600, measuring SNR over the 24 gray patches (I just used the G channel of a neutral RAW development done with DCRAW vs the linear extraction over DxO PureRAW's DNG):

http://www.guillermolu​ijk.com/misc/it8dxopur​eraw.jpg (external link)

The numbers say that all patches improve SNR (and hence DR) by aproximately 1,25EV. That means noise is 40% as large as in the original RAW files.
DR (SNR=12dB criteria) for the Sony A7 II at ISO25600 is enhanced by 1,9EV, from 4 stops to 6 stops:

https://blogger.google​usercontent.com …ZQsWHVzSQZs_MLD​5tQ=s16000 (external link)

I have to say I expected more, but this is what the calculations say (I repeated the numbers using Photoshop's info. window and got the same result). I think visually the result looks better for two reasons: DxO PureRAW eliminates all colour noise which is very annoying, but specially because of its closer to a uniform distribution (RAW noise is gaussian). This means noise in DxOPureRAW's DNG is very dense but never reaches deviations above a threshold. Looking at the histograms provided they look like truncated gaussian distributions; or three tiny ghosts as well:

https://blogger.google​usercontent.com …diB3oP0-DBWdmP5U4Q=s16000 (external link)

Regards


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DxO PureRAW (DeepPRIME) test on ISO25600 image and NN considerations
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