-= Canon EOS R7 owners unite! Post photos and discuss.

Pippan wrote in post #19491958
But I suppose, thinking it through, there'd be times when the bird does fly from sun into shade and I need to quickly increase exposure by 4 stops, then I'd have to have some way of telling the camera that this time I do want to change exposure. I don't know how that would work.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just thinking out loud. At least with the R7 it's easy to quickly change any of the three parameters with a single action (shutter front wheel, ISO back wheel, aperture control ring) so I can maintain exposure, or change it, with any of these controls. So yes, thinking it through, I guess it is fine as it is.

Re Fv, at first I couldn't understand the point of it and although I now understand better how it works I still can't really see the point of it, as to change any parameter requires two actions (one to select the parameter, another to change it), rather than one (by turning a wheel or ring). I suppose if you use an auto setting and exposure compensation, which introduces a fourth setting for which there is no direct control, then it could be useful.

Once again, sorry for the ramble, I may not be making much sense.

No worries. And I think you've reached the same conclusion as I did when asking for a use case.

FWIW I think that if the exposure in Spot mode was calculated depending on the focus tracking box, we would be able to keep the “correct” dialed in exposure no matter if the bird was in shade or sun.
But it would most likely require a fast lens, if you wanted a sufficient Shutter speed.

I started using FV when I bought the R and it is now my go-to mode on both my R6 and R7. I think it is really fast to dial in the right settings.

D-Noc wrote in post #19491960
No worries. And I think you've reached the same conclusion as I did when asking for a use case.

FWIW I think that if the exposure in Spot mode was calculated depending on the focus tracking box, we would be able to keep the “correct” dialed in exposure no matter if the bird was in shade or sun.
But it would most likely require a fast lens, if you wanted a sufficient Shutter speed.

I started using FV when I bought the R and it is now my go-to mode on both my R6 and R7. I think it is really fast to dial in the right settings.

I also adopted Fv when I got my R, used it on my R5 and now use it on my R7 and R6II. I also use Auto ISO. I actually wouldn't mind using M mode with auto ISO as I use the quick control dial for EC. No QC dial and I find the ring on the 100-500 to award to adjust EC. One thing about M mode is you can map the top dials so they reverse.

D-Noc wrote in post #19491960
No worries. And I think you've reached the same conclusion as I did when asking for a use case.

FWIW I think that if the exposure in Spot mode was calculated depending on the focus tracking box, we would be able to keep the “correct” dialed in exposure no matter if the bird was in shade or sun.
But it would most likely require a fast lens, if you wanted a sufficient Shutter speed.

I started using FV when I bought the R and it is now my go-to mode on both my R6 and R7. I think it is really fast to dial in the right settings.

Yes I think you're right about spot exposure mode being tied to the focus spot as it tracks. That should work very well.

Thanks that discussion. I've decided to revisit this and will try M on my R7. In M you can control EC with the QC dial. I mapped the main dial for Av and the ring on the lens for Tv.

In Fv you have to toggle through all of them and sometimes I leave it on ISO. I don't know why, I guess with all the action around me. In M you can't place it on ISO. If I need to change ISO there is the ISO button.

Tv is easier to deal with because I have different speeds for fast subjects vs static in the C1-3. Add M itself I have two with slower SS and drive mode options and two for faster SS.

I'll give that a try today.

digital paradise wrote in post #19491996
Thanks that discussion. I've decided to revisit this and will try M on my R7. In M you can control EC with the QC dial. I mapped the main dial for Av and the ring on the lens for Tv.

In Fv you have to toggle through all of them and sometimes I leave it on ISO. I don't know why, I guess with all the action around me. In M you can't place it on ISO. If I need to change ISO there is the ISO button.

Tv is easier to deal with because I have different speeds for fast subjects vs static in the C1-3. Add M itself I have two with slower SS and drive mode options and two for faster SS.

I'll give that a try today.

The way I use Manual is with the top wheel mapped to shutter speed (because it's near the shutter button), the back wheel mapped to ISO (because it's gain applied in the camera) and the control ring mapped to aperture (because that's similar to how we changed aperture in the old days). I have all of them set so turning them to the right (clockwise) increases 'exposure' and left decreases (easy to remember). So each parameter is easily changed with a single movement of the finger (shutter), thumb (ISO) or left hand (aperture). If you have ISO set to Auto in the Quick menu, it uses the meter to set ISO (of course) but if you don't like what it gives you, you can 'exposure compensate' by thumb-scrolling the back wheel up or down to any other ISO. This all seems so much simpler than Fv to me.

Pippan wrote in post #19492017
The way I use Manual is with the top wheel mapped to shutter speed (because it's near the shutter button), the back wheel mapped to ISO (because it's gain applied in the camera) and the control ring mapped to aperture (because that's similar to how we changed aperture in the old days). I have all of them set so turning them to the right (clockwise) increases 'exposure' and left decreases (easy to remember). So each parameter is easily changed with a single movement of the finger (shutter), thumb (ISO) or left hand (aperture). If you have ISO set to Auto in the Quick menu, it uses the meter to set ISO (of course) but if you don't like what it gives you, you can 'exposure compensate' by thumb-scrolling the back wheel up or down to any other ISO. This all seems so much simpler than Fv to me.

I currently have front wheel shutter, back wheel Av and menu iso; simply because that is what I did on DSLRs.

As for BIF one is mostly wide open it is probably a good idea to configure as you say; long time since I used my Canon Fb with an Av ring so will need to relearn.

Pippan wrote in post #19491817
That reminds me of a feature I'd love to see, and which would be easy to do. Since I shoot mostly full manual (I find it more accurate than letting an 'exposure' meter decide) I'd like a shooting mode (let's call it Ev) that is full manual but allows you to alter one parameter, say, shutter speed, while the camera automatically adjusts another parameter of your choice, say, ISO, to maintain the same 'exposure'. Though at least with the R7 you can set one wheel to shutter speed and the other to ISO and do it with less fuss than on DSLRs.

Yes, that would be very easy to implement and would be very valuable to a lot of people. The closest any Canon comes to that is that in P mode where Tv and Av values trade off as you turn a dial, but maintain the same exposure if the ambient light is stable. As soon as the meter times out it is back to the camera's choice again next time you half-press the shutter, which is a nuisance, especially when you have image stabilization and don't need 1/focal_length but the camera thinks you do.

I had a similar idea long ago, and thought of it in the framework of a "Sunny-f/x" kind of mode that didn't use the meter except as feedback to signal that the lighting may have changed, and automated any parameters based on an assumed metering. When I shot film on my Voightlander without metering back in the '70s, that's how I worked, but without automation; my pairings of Av and Tv values was always "sunny f/16" in sunlight, "sunny f/whatever" for the type of lighting, etc. I had an old Weston light meter for when I wasn't sure of the light levels, but not for every shot.

While I appreciate metering and automation based on metering for most of what I shoot (birds jumping from sun to shade and back again makes full-manual very risky), I do recognize that there are situations that others spend more time in where small changes due to meter-based automation are counterproductive. Imagine two horses; a white one and a black one playing in even light; why would you want the Av and Tv combo to change depending on which horse was dominating the frame? That doesn't make any sense.

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19492023
I currently have front wheel shutter, back wheel Av and menu iso; simply because that is what I did on DSLRs.

As for BIF one is mostly wide open it is probably a good idea to configure as you say; long time since I used my Canon Fb with an Av ring so will need to relearn.

Good point. I’m standing here waiting for a bird to fly. I mapped Av to the ring and the front dial to Tv as I shoot wide open as well. Thanks

D-Noc wrote in post #19491822
Isn't that what FV mode is for?
Set Aperture and ISO to Auto and adjust Shutter speed manually. Aperture and/or ISO will adjust automatically. Want to also adjust ISO? set to to a value as you wish. Now only Aperture will be adjusted automatically. You can even still adjust Exposure Compensation in FV mode.

What Pippan is talking about is having the Tv and Av values change together with a single turn of the dial. Say the camera was at 1/80 and f/8 to begin with. Turning one dial would result in:

1/100 f/7.1
1/125 f/6.3
1/160 f/5.6

etc. Otherwise, you'd have to be precise in counting clicks while turning two dials to keep exposure the same. Such a mode would guarantee no change in exposure, as long as you didn't hit the min or max for the range of Av or Tv values.

John Sheehy wrote in post #19492027
What Pippan is talking about is having the Tv and Av values change together with a single turn of the dial. Say the camera was at 1/80 and f/8 to begin with. Turning one dial would result in:

1/100 f/7.1
1/125 f/6.3
1/160 f/5.6

etc. Otherwise, you'd have to be precise in counting clicks while turning two dials to keep exposure the same. Such a mode would guarantee no change in exposure, as long as you didn't hit the min or max for the range of Av or Tv values.

Yes. That is the conclusion we reached earlier

digital paradise wrote in post #19491970
I also adopted Fv when I got my R, used it on my R5 and now use it on my R7 and R6II. I also use Auto ISO. I actually wouldn't mind using M mode with auto ISO as I use the quick control dial for EC. No QC dial and I find the ring on the 100-500 to award to adjust EC. One thing about M mode is you can map the top dials so they reverse.

I never understood why the factory felt turning them to the left should be more light. I always change mine to be like the volume knob, turn to the right for more light/volume.

Robin in the morning light.
There was a lot more light on the background than on the Robin so it was difficult light conditions. Had to push the exposure on the bird a bit..
I am still struggling with getting as good results with the R7 as I did/do with my R6, but I still hope I will figure it out.
Soon it will be spring and I will have more opportunities to fiddle with the R7.

And if I don't get the feel for it I guess I will go back to the R6 for wildlife again.

Pippan wrote in post #19492017
The way I use Manual is with the top wheel mapped to shutter speed (because it's near the shutter button), the back wheel mapped to ISO (because it's gain applied in the camera) and the control ring mapped to aperture (because that's similar to how we changed aperture in the old days). I have all of them set so turning them to the right (clockwise) increases 'exposure' and left decreases (easy to remember). So each parameter is easily changed with a single movement of the finger (shutter), thumb (ISO) or left hand (aperture). If you have ISO set to Auto in the Quick menu, it uses the meter to set ISO (of course) but if you don't like what it gives you, you can 'exposure compensate' by thumb-scrolling the back wheel up or down to any other ISO. This all seems so much simpler than Fv to me.

Exactly my set up as well. Been working great for me.

C Scott IV wrote in post #19492054
I never understood why the factory felt turning them to the left should be more light. I always change mine to be like the volume knob, turn to the right for more light/volume.

Probably because the numbers (shutter speed denominator and focal ratio) increase as you turn them to the right, like a volume knob.

I'm not saying that's the best way, but somebody probably made the decision for that to be the default behavior.

"It goes to f/11"