Best PS Alternative for RAW & Editing?

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19400494
I'm new to DPP but since getting an R6 have been using it more and more as I think DPP's colours are better than Lightroom's. What I do is I select all the raw files from a shoot and go to Quick Check, which I find is very quick and efficient. Is that a bad way and is it better to use jpegs for reviewing and culling files?

I do it the same way as you, working directly on the raw files in DPP. I run everything through Quick Edit, flagging the keepers. Those get put into their own directory and imported into LR. Makes for a fairly lean catalog.

I've never used DPP for any image editing at all. I'm pretty bought in to the Adobe ecosystem and I'm comfortable there as long as I'm sure everything in the catalog will stay in the catalog.

joeseph wrote in post #19400288
I do same, just wondering if you keep all the raw's or if you have a "smart" way of deleting the chaff raw when you delete the jpeg?

My method is copy all files to PC. RAWs and JPEGs in separate folders. I preview JPEGs and move keepers to a 'Keepers' folder.
Recycle bin empty before I start. Delete any obvious bad JPEGs during preview.
Any mistakes made I can easily find JPEGs in Recycle bin, or create new JPEGs from RAWs.

If I complete job, keeper JPEGs get resized to 3000 pix wide (or high) for long term archive. My chosen size for enough pixels for good review but small enough file size for fast working with software.

To delete RAWs, I copy Keeper JPEGs to RAW folder, in file manager view as large icon and sort by name. It's now easy to manually delete unwanted JPEGs. I don't have any plugin to make RAWs into thumbnails so the RAW icon very easy to distinguish from the JPEG thumbnails. This makes the process the same no matter what brand of camera files, Canon, Sony or Fuji. Once done, I,m looking at vertical rows of thumbnails next to rows of icons. Click 'sort by type' and select JPEGs. No mistakes and number of JPEGs is half total files in the folder so I then delete those JPEGs, leaving keeper RAWs.

This process works for me and so far have not found any mistakes at about 195,000 pics from Sony A9 and around 100,000 from other cameras.

Filename for first A9 pic was A900001, pic 9001 was A99001, once 0-9 was taken I start alphabet with A9A0001, currently at A9Jxxxx.
This means even a 'saved for web' pic, with no exif, I still know roughly when it was taken. I have been using that filename method since about 2009.

lacogada wrote in post #19400367
The "smart" way is not import the "chaff" to your hard drive ... cull before.

No. The smart way is whatever method works for you.

I do most (or all) of my correction in DPP. I shoot JPEG and CR2 to separate cards. I import new raws to the mac and then delete the same selection from the card. Then I flip through them, either tagging them with a zero (for subsequent mass deletion) or just cmd-delete. Then I do whatever I need to cull further... compare similars, see if these are better than similars from 20 minutes before (this is usually sports), pick the best of a burst, etc. Then I go through and crop them all, and then I apply color/exposure corrections (typically continuing to delete here and there as I look at them more). Then mass export what I need.

Lately I have not been even going into Photoshop.

At some later point, I will periodically delete all of the JPEGs from the other card. They are strictly backup.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19400494
I'm new to DPP but since getting an R6 have been using it more and more as I think DPP's colours are better than Lightroom's. What I do is I select all the raw files from a shoot and go to Quick Check, which I find is very quick and efficient. Is that a bad way and is it better to use jpegs for reviewing and culling files?

I can't think why your method could be called bad.
I like my method for many reasons.
It requires no change for the three brands of camera I use now or any future brands.
I use it at home with 'proper PC' or when travelling, in a motel, with any laptop I have or will have.
I hate windows not Microsoft windows, application windows. I review using ancient version of ACDSee and preview in full screen mode.
No window, border, or tool palettes, just the pic.

JPEGs are fast to work with and I want my 3000 pixel (longest side) JPEGs as long term archives. These are for review archive only.
ie, at any time, I can revisit originals, any I decide I want to process, I will use the RAW.
Therefore I sort the JPEGs and apply sort results to RAWs as a 2nd step.

I also find it easy to pick up where I left off. If I don't complete a folder, I don't delete any RAWs.
If I do complete, that's when I resize JPEGs.
If I find a folder with resized JPEGs, but all RAWs, I know I can just go ahead and do the RAW delete step.

Same with my filename process, I'm happy with the process and I've been doing it for so long I'd be very nervous changing.

Photomechanic and Fast RAW viewer are 2 applications I hear a lot of good things about, regarding speed of use with RAW files.
I could use those and work with RAWs, working in opposite order, final step being creating JPEGs from the keeper RAWs, but KISS is working for me.

Like most here, my go-to is Canon's DPP. It is very fast for reading and displaying RAW files, and is backwards compatible going back to the oldest Canon digital cameras. One thing it can't do well is to be able to edit native JPEG files, but it CAN develop nice JPEGs from Canon Raws. While limited in full editing ability, DPP works well for me most of the time.

When I need more editing power I turn to Polarr's Pro version on the web, which despite the normal subscription price, is free to use but limits pro edits to one conversion per day. That's fine for me since I won't shoot 365 keepers in a year that need the extra editing power that DPP can't do. The interface is Lightroom-like, to a certain extent, but not nearly as full featured. Polarr can read Canon CR2's, but much older Canon RAWs don't come in at full resolution. Newer Canon files import into Polarr at full resolution and it can create full res JPEG files in high quality.

gjl711 wrote in post #19400502
I've been using DPP more as well but as to your culling strategy, I think that there are different levels of culling. My strategy is to take a first pass eliminating all the OOF, poorly framed, and test type photos. For those I don't think it really matters what the format is. A OOF photo is OOF whether raw or jpeg. Second pass starts looking at the duplicates, several images of the same keeping only the top 2 or 3. Those require a bit more looking into. Last cull for me is once a session is complete I look at the photos I choose not to process. Many are technically fine but just uninteresting so if I feel that at some time in the future I might do something with it, I keep it, otherwise it goes as well. In all these cases examining the raw as opposed to a jpeg is really not important.

While I stick to my general method, actually culling varies greatly.
Sometimes I pick a few keepers, delete the rest.
Sometimes I pick a few keepers, then return several times to complete the job.
There's a massive variation in criteria too. I have been following and documenting a local pair of Osprey since 2015.
So keepers may show identification marks, events, etc

Speed is the primary reason for working with JPEGs.
Sony A7RIV RAWs are 61MB compressed. Uncompressed can be over 100MB.
The full size JPEGs are 10 - 25 MB.

Choderboy wrote in post #19400704
No. The smart way is whatever method works for you.

I just answered his question with my opinion.

You have the right to import 100's + photos to your hard drive, and tomorrow delete them.

If that makes sense to you ... have at it.

If you use multiple camera brands, or want to preview your raw files directly for focus assessment and composition prior to, or after, copying to your hard drive, consider Fast Raw Viewer (Mac and PC).

It is a minimal financial investment ($24 USD) and is brand agnostic. Fast raw file rendering, as in no need to use JPEG proxies to assess the raw file. You can choose to view the rendered raw file, the JPEG embedded in the raw file (a low res proxy that will reflect picture styles, white balance, optical corrections etc.) and, if you shoot JPEG+RAW and the JPEG file is next to the RAW file on your card or drive, the full-res JPEG file. You can toggle amongst these on the fly.

You can check focus with virtual focus peaking masks (an edge mode and contrast detail mode), boost shadows and pull down highlights with the press of a keyboard shortcut to assess shadow recovery and highlight headroom, and enable a RAW histogram so you can actually see which channels are really clipped in the raw file before white balance and JPEG tone curve application. The app also provides over and underexposure warnings and statistics, per channel, of the raw data, not the JPEG. There are white balance presets and one-click custom white balance to aid in visualization of the raw file with your intended color balance.

You can flag images to be moved on your card to a rejects folder (and automatically deleted, if you want) and you can move or copy keepers from the card media to a hard drive once the assessment of your files is complete. You can also select images and choose to open them in whatever external application you choose - you can configure the app with whatever external editing apps you choose. So, for example, you could send your selected raw files to DPP from FRV for editing and export.

You can apply star ratings, keywords, and exposure offset which will be read by ACR/Lightroom if you want it to be read and incorporated into the LR database. You can also remove the hidden exposure boost that ACR applies to your raw file, and you can view your raw files in linear gamma instead of with a contrast curve applied.

It has a metadata viewer that you can configure to show just the EXIF data you want to see.

This tool is superior to most brand-dedicated raw converters that offer culling and rating tools, and is brand agnostic so you are not locked in to a proprietary workflow, or multiple proprietary workflows.

Free trial here:

https://www.fastrawvie​wer.com

It will be the best $24 you ever spent on imaging software.

Kirk

The FRV website talks a lot about the XMP files, seeming to indicate they are the same as the Adobe products use. I'm not at my photo computer right now; is there any crossover between that and the edits that are saved with DPP?

Also, it seems that the XMP fields are somewhat standardized. I was hoping that some program like these would allow me to tag photos by athlete number(s) but if there isn't an XMP field that is suited to that use, then maybe it's not possible.

XMP is just a human readable file format (Extensible Metadata Platform) developed by Adobe that includes tagged blocks of data. Adobe products use specific XMP tags to store edits on raw files and instruct their software to render and tag files without actually touching the raw files themselves (for XMP sidecar files, versus the internal database used by Lightroom, for example).

To my knowledge, and it has been several years since I used DPP, Canon does not use external sidecar files and, even if they did, the tonal and color values stored in the adjustment data would not necessarily be meaningful for DPP compared to Adobe products.

To tag files with an athlete's number you could use an IPTC field to record the player's number. FRV does let you alter the IPTC image title and description data (keyboard shortcut Option-D on a Mac, I assume ALT-D on a PC). Whether or not DPP even reads this information I have no idea.

EDIT: According to this Canon web page:

https://www.usa.canon.​com …a-with-the-EOS-5D-Mark-IV

DPP displays IPTC data fields (ignore the aspects of the article that have to do with auto population of IPTC fields from the camera - see the section of the article entitled "Viewing IPTC data in Canon’s DPP software") - see if you can enter information into the IPTC Title or Description fields in FRV and then open the CR2 or CR3 file in DPP and see if the data you entered is displayed.

IPTC fields are standard metadata fields and the data travels with the file in the metadata instead of outside of the file in a sidecar, so it is more difficult to get separated from the associated raw file. However, if FRV only writes to an XMP file and not to the raw file's metadata, then the IPTC tags you add will probably not be read by DPP.

Kirk

Yes, but it's very unclear if you can filter on it. I looked at a few threads on their forum and it sounds like you can filter on what they say you can filter on, and nothing else. And filtering on a description is not mentioned.

A good example of what I want is in HS tennis. We have up to 12 players, plus possibly a few in exhibition play. I roam around, shooting a few here and a few there, going back to the first ones again later, maybe encountering the same ones again in doubles. Or any field sport, where you shoot and get the same athlete at different points in the game. I usually want to at least know what the best shot is of a particular player, even if it's not really that good. So I'd like to tag them all by player, filter, and then at least save one, if possible, of each. If you only have a few players it's not so bad to scroll through and check each one (I suppose you could mark each with a color) but once you have 10~15 players that isn't really practical any more. Typing a number (or several for some shots) into a field seems like a good way to do it.

Dragging them individually into DPP subfolders is an option but that is pretty tedious.

AntonLargiader wrote in post #19401048
Yes, but it's very unclear if you can filter on it. I looked at a few threads on their forum and it sounds like you can filter on what they say you can filter on, and nothing else. And filtering on a description is not mentioned.

A good example of what I want is in HS tennis. We have up to 12 players, plus possibly a few in exhibition play. I roam around, shooting a few here and a few there, going back to the first ones again later, maybe encountering the same ones again in doubles. Or any field sport, where you shoot and get the same athlete at different points in the game. I usually want to at least know what the best shot is of a particular player, even if it's not really that good. So I'd like to tag them all by player, filter, and then at least save one, if possible, of each. If you only have a few players it's not so bad to scroll through and check each one (I suppose you could mark each with a color) but once you have 10~15 players that isn't really practical any more. Typing a number (or several for some shots) into a field seems like a good way to do it.

Dragging them individually into DPP subfolders is an option but that is pretty tedious.

FRV is not a DAM, so it is not meant to do what you want. You probably want to use a full-featured third-party DAM like Photo Mechanic for ingestion and tagging/filtering if you insist on using DPP to render the raw files. Otherwise, raw converters with DAM capabilities, like Lightroom or CaptureOne, are probably more efficient for what you are trying to manage.

Re: Photo Mechanic - filter by metadata:

https://docs.camerabit​s.com …mechanic-plus-filter-tool

Kirk

Well, I think you've sold me. I have heard a lot of good things about both Fast Raw Viewer and Photomechanic but have not investigated (until tonight).

Regards FRV:

One of the most basic features would eliminate a file management issue that can be frustrating to me:
Preferences – Selection – Advanced selection mode: single click does not ruin selection.

The focus peaking analysis is something I can appreciate.

I don't use LR and don't want to, just CS4 (will probably move to CS6) so a lot of mentions of LR in the manual don't apply.
I read the info on White balance and exposure adjustments (a couple of times).
The takeaway seems to be the histograms I am used to using are misleading.

I get the impression FRV manual and information is less of a sales pitch and more explanation. Obviously they want to sell it, but it sounds more honest and less rhetoric.

So a question:
If I use FRV to view, select and cull, if I want to apply some of the eg white balance and exposure adjustments, I would need to use ACR instead of DPP to convert to Tiff?
(As DPP would not understand the changed XMP data?)

So FRV would also be used as a 'pre processor', as long as I use ACR?

kirkt wrote in post #19400998
If you use multiple camera brands, or want to preview your raw files directly for focus assessment and composition prior to, or after, copying to your hard drive, consider Fast Raw Viewer (Mac and PC).

It is a minimal financial investment ($24 USD) and is brand agnostic. Fast raw file rendering, as in no need to use JPEG proxies to assess the raw file. You can choose to view the rendered raw file, the JPEG embedded in the raw file (a low res proxy that will reflect picture styles, white balance, optical corrections etc.) and, if you shoot JPEG+RAW and the JPEG file is next to the RAW file on your card or drive, the full-res JPEG file. You can toggle amongst these on the fly.

You can check focus with virtual focus peaking masks (an edge mode and contrast detail mode), boost shadows and pull down highlights with the press of a keyboard shortcut to assess shadow recovery and highlight headroom, and enable a RAW histogram so you can actually see which channels are really clipped in the raw file before white balance and JPEG tone curve application. The app also provides over and underexposure warnings and statistics, per channel, of the raw data, not the JPEG. There are white balance presets and one-click custom white balance to aid in visualization of the raw file with your intended color balance.

You can flag images to be moved on your card to a rejects folder (and automatically deleted, if you want) and you can move or copy keepers from the card media to a hard drive once the assessment of your files is complete. You can also select images and choose to open them in whatever external application you choose - you can configure the app with whatever external editing apps you choose. So, for example, you could send your selected raw files to DPP from FRV for editing and export.

You can apply star ratings, keywords, and exposure offset which will be read by ACR/Lightroom if you want it to be read and incorporated into the LR database. You can also remove the hidden exposure boost that ACR applies to your raw file, and you can view your raw files in linear gamma instead of with a contrast curve applied.

It has a metadata viewer that you can configure to show just the EXIF data you want to see.

This tool is superior to most brand-dedicated raw converters that offer culling and rating tools, and is brand agnostic so you are not locked in to a proprietary workflow, or multiple proprietary workflows.

Free trial here:

https://www.fastrawvie​wer.com

It will be the best $24 you ever spent on imaging software.

Kirk

Choderboy, do you plan to purchase a standalone license of CS6? Right now I am frozen at CS5 with my current camera a 5D3. If I upgrade to something like the R5 I'd have to make a major s/w switch but old standalone copies have always been fine for me.