Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
Thread started 06 Jul 2022 (Wednesday) 10:15
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

R7 vs R6 vs R5 vs R3

 
Choderboy
I like a long knob
7,511 posts
Gallery: 185 photos
Likes: 6386
Joined Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Post edited over 1 year ago by Choderboy. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 10, 2022 19:53 |  #76

Archibald wrote in post #19432147 (external link)
It's so logical, they multiply errors by their extender factor. But is it really so? Why do 1.4 extenders have hardly any effect on sharpness, whereas 2x extenders are often considered to be marginal? If 1.4x are so great, maybe stack two of them to get to 2x instead of using a 2x. And that doesn't make any sense either.

Apart from that, it should be possible to design a teleconverter that improves sharpness, because additional lens elements can do that.

If you are going to be cropping, you are also multiplying the lens 'errors'.
So for the vast majority of scenarios, it's a comparison of crop vs TC.

So take a shot without TC and then another with 2XTC.
Crop the first shot to 3480 pixels wide (in the case of R7.)

So now it's 8.1mp bare lens shot vs 32.5mp for the 2XTC shot.

Unless you're using a 400 2.8, or shoting a static subject using a stable tripod, you are probably now compromised by much higher ISO, or much slower shutter speed, or diffraction, or a combination of those.

Then, we usually judge the results using a display and often with our own flawed method of judging. (I include myself as being less than expert)
Some would say printing to compare would be the 'proper' way to evaluate results but prints are not necessarily the intended output.

When I first got my R, I stacked 1.4 and 2XTC, using 12mm extension tube between them, on Sigma 500 f4 and was surprised at the quality. IMHO still looks good after cropping. I used Gitzo 5 series tripod and big ball head which is still inferior to my usual beanbags on a boulder method, but still very solid for tripod.

My beliefe is that TCs have a higher potential for best results compared to cropping but also make achieving best results more difficult which is why many consider TCs degrade results too much.


Dave
Image editing OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,672 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16800
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
     
Oct 10, 2022 20:26 |  #77

Choderboy wrote in post #19434518 (external link)
If you are going to be cropping, you are also multiplying the lens 'errors'.
So for the vast majority of scenarios, it's a comparison of crop vs TC.

So take a shot without TC and then another with 2XTC.
Crop the first shot to 3480 pixels wide (in the case of R7.)

So now it's 8.1mp bare lens shot vs 32.5mp for the 2XTC shot.

Unless you're using a 400 2.8, or shoting a static subject using a stable tripod, you are probably now compromised by much higher ISO, or much slower shutter speed, or diffraction, or a combination of those.

Then, we usually judge the results using a display and often with our own flawed method of judging. (I include myself as being less than expert)
Some would say printing to compare would be the 'proper' way to evaluate results but prints are not necessarily the intended output.

When I first got my R, I stacked 1.4 and 2XTC, using 12mm extension tube between them, on Sigma 500 f4 and was surprised at the quality. IMHO still looks good after cropping. I used Gitzo 5 series tripod and big ball head which is still inferior to my usual beanbags on a boulder method, but still very solid for tripod.

My beliefe is that TCs have a higher potential for best results compared to cropping but also make achieving best results more difficult which is why many consider TCs degrade results too much.

Many years ago I really wanted an EF 70-200 f4 IS. My local mom and pop camera shop owner was against IS. He said that if I shot with a tripod for one year I'd never go back to hand held. Impractical for many situations but I found it very interesting.


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Archibald
You must be quackers!
Avatar
15,504 posts
Gallery: 789 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 50960
Joined May 2008
Location: Ottawa
     
Oct 10, 2022 20:28 |  #78

Choderboy wrote in post #19434518 (external link)
If you are going to be cropping, you are also multiplying the lens 'errors'.
So for the vast majority of scenarios, it's a comparison of crop vs TC.

So take a shot without TC and then another with 2XTC.
Crop the first shot to 3480 pixels wide (in the case of R7.)

So now it's 8.1mp bare lens shot vs 32.5mp for the 2XTC shot.

Unless you're using a 400 2.8, or shoting a static subject using a stable tripod, you are probably now compromised by much higher ISO, or much slower shutter speed, or diffraction, or a combination of those.

Then, we usually judge the results using a display and often with our own flawed method of judging. (I include myself as being less than expert)
Some would say printing to compare would be the 'proper' way to evaluate results but prints are not necessarily the intended output.

When I first got my R, I stacked 1.4 and 2XTC, using 12mm extension tube between them, on Sigma 500 f4 and was surprised at the quality. IMHO still looks good after cropping. I used Gitzo 5 series tripod and big ball head which is still inferior to my usual beanbags on a boulder method, but still very solid for tripod.

My beliefe is that TCs have a higher potential for best results compared to cropping but also make achieving best results more difficult which is why many consider TCs degrade results too much.

Interesting. It's a common question - which is better, TC or crop. Most will say TC. I always thought the TC would win if you are resolution-limited. With today's high mp sensors, that might be less of an issue.

I found this article online and it basically says the TC probably wins but that it will depend on the actual sensor-lens-TC combo used.
https://backcountrygal​lery.com/use-teleconverter-crop-image/ (external link)

The difference might not be much for a combo like R7 & 100-500mm - just guessing.


Canon R5 and R7, assorted Canon lenses, Sony RX100, Pentax Spotmatic F
I'm Ed. Migrating to cameraderie.org and Talk Photography where I'm Archibald.

I'm probably listening to Davide of MIMIC (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,672 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16800
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
     
Oct 10, 2022 21:05 |  #79

Archibald wrote in post #19434527 (external link)
Interesting. It's a common question - which is better, TC or crop. Most will say TC. I always thought the TC would win if you are resolution-limited. With today's high mp sensors, that might be less of an issue.

I found this article online and it basically says the TC probably wins but that it will depend on the actual sensor-lens-TC combo used.
https://backcountrygal​lery.com/use-teleconverter-crop-image/ (external link)

The difference might not be much for a combo like R7 & 100-500mm - just guessing.

Skimming through that he mentions AF won’t work as well with a TC. Also as mentioned fast VS slow lens is a factor as well. I noticed this and preferred to BIF using my 100-500 sans TC.


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Choderboy
I like a long knob
7,511 posts
Gallery: 185 photos
Likes: 6386
Joined Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Oct 10, 2022 21:16 |  #80

Archibald wrote in post #19434527 (external link)
Interesting. It's a common question - which is better, TC or crop. Most will say TC. I always thought the TC would win if you are resolution-limited. With today's high mp sensors, that might be less of an issue.

I found this article online and it basically says the TC probably wins but that it will depend on the actual sensor-lens-TC combo used.
https://backcountrygal​lery.com/use-teleconverter-crop-image/ (external link)

The difference might not be much for a combo like R7 & 100-500mm - just guessing.

Yes. Equipment variables and operational variables. Blanket statements or conclusions have limited value.


Dave
Image editing OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,672 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16800
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
     
Oct 10, 2022 21:21 |  #81

I had both the EF 1.4 and 2X. I know I won’t be getting the RF 2X.


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Archibald
You must be quackers!
Avatar
15,504 posts
Gallery: 789 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 50960
Joined May 2008
Location: Ottawa
     
Oct 10, 2022 22:45 |  #82

Choderboy wrote in post #19434537 (external link)
Blanket statements or conclusions have limited value.

Well, that's quite the blanket statement!


Canon R5 and R7, assorted Canon lenses, Sony RX100, Pentax Spotmatic F
I'm Ed. Migrating to cameraderie.org and Talk Photography where I'm Archibald.

I'm probably listening to Davide of MIMIC (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,672 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16800
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
     
Oct 10, 2022 23:21 |  #83

If anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=jSeosGbG6w4&​t=477s (external link)

Here is a good article of how different sized sensors affect what you see.

https://gdanmitchell.c​om …an-your-12mp-image-at-100 (external link)

Not sure if this was discussed. Same camera and lens vs adding 2X TC on. Assuming the body is stable and there is slight up and down movement at the front of the lens. Would you see more micro blur with the TC because the lens is further from the camera? It's not much further, but it may not take much. I have been curious about that.


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
Avatar
52,908 posts
Gallery: 193 photos
Likes: 10101
Joined Apr 2003
Location: Rhode Island USA
Post edited over 1 year ago by CyberDyneSystems. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 11, 2022 16:46 |  #84

If we are still talking about TCs my rule of thumb has been,
- TC on a big prime is usually better than crop.
- TC on zoom is almost always worse.


Of course things change, zooms keep getting better, as do the TCs, but I still mostly stick to that rule. Also, when I shoot the zoom (100-400mm) I want to be able to react to action and track fast subjects,. as mentioned, even with the latest tech, this gets harder with the TC. So another argument against TC on the zoom.


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Archibald
You must be quackers!
Avatar
15,504 posts
Gallery: 789 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 50960
Joined May 2008
Location: Ottawa
     
Oct 11, 2022 16:49 |  #85

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19434828 (external link)
If we are still talking about TCs my rule of thumb has been,
- TC on a big prime is usually better than crop.
- TC on zoom is almost always worse.

Interesting, seems to agree with that website. Good to get your experience.


Canon R5 and R7, assorted Canon lenses, Sony RX100, Pentax Spotmatic F
I'm Ed. Migrating to cameraderie.org and Talk Photography where I'm Archibald.

I'm probably listening to Davide of MIMIC (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,672 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16800
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
Post edited over 1 year ago by digital paradise. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 11, 2022 17:15 |  #86

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19434828 (external link)
If we are still talking about TCs my rule of thumb has been,
- TC on a big prime is usually better than crop.
- TC on zoom is almost always worse.


Of course things change, zooms keep getting better, as do the TCs, but I still mostly stick to that rule. Also, when I shoot the zoom (100-400mm) I want to be able to react to action and track fast subjects,. as mentioned, even with the latest tech, this gets harder with the TC. So another argument against TC on the zoom.

Interesting. Older article but get once said TC's are tuned for primes.

https://wordpress.lens​rentals.com …09/01/teleconve​rters-101/ (external link)


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jeff ­ USN ­ Photog ­ 72-76
I can't believe I miss-typed
Avatar
2,711 posts
Gallery: 666 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 10572
Joined Aug 2014
Location: SE Massachusetts
     
Oct 11, 2022 18:13 |  #87

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19434828 (external link)
If we are still talking about TCs my rule of thumb has been,
- TC on a big prime is usually better than crop.
- TC on zoom is almost always worse.


Of course things change, zooms keep getting better, as do the TCs, but I still mostly stick to that rule. Also, when I shoot the zoom (100-400mm) I want to be able to react to action and track fast subjects,. as mentioned, even with the latest tech, this gets harder with the TC. So another argument against TC on the zoom.

That is my experience as well.


"sometimes having is not so pleasing as wanting, it is not logical but it is true" Commander Spock
"Free advice is seldom cheap" Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #59
I might not always be right, but I am never wrong! Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
12,321 posts
Gallery: 21 photos
Likes: 4201
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idaho
     
Oct 11, 2022 19:22 |  #88

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19434828 (external link)
If we are still talking about TCs my rule of thumb has been,
- TC on a big prime is usually better than crop.
- TC on zoom is almost always worse.


Of course things change, zooms keep getting better, as do the TCs, but I still mostly stick to that rule. Also, when I shoot the zoom (100-400mm) I want to be able to react to action and track fast subjects,. as mentioned, even with the latest tech, this gets harder with the TC. So another argument against TC on the zoom.


I agree. Great advice


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,672 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16800
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
     
Oct 11, 2022 22:35 |  #89

Yes. This will help making decisions about its usage.


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
40,862 posts
Gallery: 116 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 8923
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Oct 12, 2022 05:34 |  #90

I like that rule, and will add a postulate to that.

"If I compromise IQ because the final resolution requires a digital resampling to increase it, I will use a TC."

This adds the body to the equation a bit.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
"Man only has 5 senses, and sometimes not even that, so if they define the world, the universe, the dimensions of existence, and spirituality with just these limited senses, their view of what-is and what-can-be is very myopic indeed and they are doomed, now and forever."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

12,202 views & 90 likes for this thread, 31 members have posted to it and it is followed by 26 members.
R7 vs R6 vs R5 vs R3
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is griggt
1346 guests, 122 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.