R1 rumored to be 100 MP's

Off topic or not however, it seems your assumption is that to produce a viable version of full frame 100mp they have to step backwards in sensor tech.

The opinions you offer to support this just don’t hold water, in my opinion. They obviously have better technology…they just have to get it in a 100mp sensor, and I believe they can. In fact canon has already produced a 100mp sensor though little is known about it.

John,

The limits of an R1 with 100 megapixel would be largely be data throughput of CF express.

Does it have the bandwidth to do

- 100 megapixels
- >30 fps e. Shutter
- >12 fps mech shutter
- for RAW
- for RAW + JPEG

What about power consumption? Can it do better than 2021 R3 or approaching 2020 1D X Mark III?

Those two bodies are 24 megapixel & 20 megapixel respectively.

The rumor posits at 100 megapixel image sensor.

I have zero doubts that EOS 5Ds R replacement will do 100 megapixels as its e shutter would be <30fps & mech shutter <12fps

Sony A1 can do

- 50.1 megapixels
- 30fps e. shutter
- 10fps mech shutter
- for RAW
- for RAW + JPEG

Nikon Z9 can do

- 45.7 megapixels
- 30fps e. shutter
- for RAW

That's why I am more conservative with the R1 being at most 60+ megapixels.

I think CR's getting their rumors mixed up or intentionally causing disharmony to get more clicks from a user base that is quickly diminishing. My bet is that CR's getting half the clicks a decade ago

dolina wrote in post #19428836
Jack,

To cut this discussion short the points I raised are tech that fits the user requirements typical of 1-series bodies.

So all the tech you mentioned with applications beyond that are likely not to appear in the R1. It will likely appear in the Mark II or even Mark III or IV.

From your perspective it's a "nice to share" but it somewhat disrupts the flow of information when you did not provide a context or frame of reference of what you were sharing.

Like when you say BSI is old tech and being used already before Sony so I was wondering if Leica, Pentax or Panasonic had it on a full frame. From your point of view its BSI on non-ILC when everyone responding here are ILC users.

Seeming this is POTN I expect it to be from a CIPA member rather than military vendor. It is a reasonable assumption as this is a mainstream photo forum.

I have confidence that everything said is true so no need to fact check it is just that its so off topic.

A 100 MP sensor is existing technology and there is no technical reason for it not to be in the R1. There's also no reason what they can't create an R5s with a 100 MP sensor and make the R1 with a different resolution. Why an R5s? It parallels the increase in resolution from the 5D to 5Ds

By the way- those "specialty" cameras are "ILC" and use some of the same mounts familiar to you. I know that I can buy, right now, a 120 MP sensor from Canon in an APS-H format with an F-mount. It's not much more than a sensor and software to drive it. The context is that Canon can, and does, make such a sensor, and there's no reason they can't stick it in an R1 or something else.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19428857
A 100 MP sensor is existing technology and there is no technical reason for it not to be in the R1. There's also no reason what they can't create an R5s with a 100 MP sensor and make the R1 with a different resolution. Why an R5s? It parallels the increase in resolution from the 5D to 5Ds

By the way- those "specialty" cameras are "ILC" and use some of the same mounts familiar to you. I know that I can buy, right now, a 120 MP sensor from Canon in an APS-H format with an F-mount. It's not much more than a sensor and software to drive it. The context is that Canon can, and does, make such a sensor, and there's no reason they can't stick it in an R1 or something else.

See my previous post that addresses your 1st paragraph.

As for the 2nd paragraph you are looking at it from a prototyping point of view for someone in R&D and not an off the shelf product for end user.

That's where we appear to have 2 distinctly different conversations.

Again, not applicable for almost all POTN members who just want a finish product to mount to their RF L lens and start making photos.

Also.. why go back to APS-H that has been abandoned a decade ago with the original 2012 1D X? Why even make it for a F mount that is being abandoned as early as 4 years from now?

Currently we are not seeing that data throuput, no. I have two thoughts in that area:

1. Not having it currently doesn’t mean they can’t, it just means they haven’t. We don’t know that one. 12fps yes, but that is possible now in total data throughput. 30fps we will have to see.

2. Is it really needed? If 30fps is really needed, I still think they will either crop the 100mp or otherwise reduce the resolution to a point in which the data throughput is possible. Personally I would not want 30fps @ 100mp anyway. 50? Maybe.

The point is it doesn’t have to be all or nothing, as we have already seen with other bodies.

Typically, at least recently, we have seen these 1 series sized bodies geared toward action which makes sense. The higher resolution bodies more toward landscape and studio. The waters are muddied with bodies such as the R5, but I still think it is mostly true.

I’m not sure I see the need or the advantage of combining those qualities to that level. They could, but why? I think that is the best argument as to why the R1 might not be 100mp.

dolina wrote in post #19428863
See my previous post that addresses your 1st paragraph.

As for the 2nd paragraph you are looking at it from a prototyping point of view for someone in R&D and not an off the shelf product for end user.

That's where we appear to have 2 distinctly different conversations.

Again, not applicable for almost all POTN members who just want a finish product to mount to their RF L lens and start making photos.

Also.. why go back to APS-H that has been abandoned a decade ago with the original 2012 1D X? Why even make it for a F mount that is being abandoned as early as 4 years from now?

I had you pegged as a manager- now I think you make a living as a politician.

We are talking about a hypothetical product. There's no technical reason why the R1 can't be 100 MP. Canon is making 120 MP sensors now. What technical reason do you have that suggests they can't make a full frame sensor for an R1 with at least 100 MP for a future product?

John,

1. It is possible that a CF express card will be released between now and 15 months later that can accommodate the data throughput of the 100 megapixel R1 at said fps. This also ties into DIGIC X image processor replacement power consumption. Will it be able to give the same frames per charge?

2. R3, Z9 & A1 shutter speeds indicates a photojournalist requirement of 30fps e. Shutter and 10-12fps mech shutter. So if that's the base mark for a flagship body then R1 100 megapixel will need to hit that mark. Having a crop mode has happened before with the R3 but 24 megapixel was the baseline for the e. Shutter and mech shutter but it still does not negate 100 megapixels.

> The point is it doesn’t have to be all or nothing, as we have already seen with other bodies.

Historically from past 1-series bodies has there been a precedence?

Off the top of my head they've never been a megapixel king that CR is positing. If you want more megapixels it was always the 5-Series.

That's why I said from the 1st mention of a 5Ds R replacement that 100 megapixel will come out in that body and not the R1.

But then again I want to be proven wrong.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19428866
I had you pegged as a manager- now I think you make a living as a politician.

We are talking about a hypothetical product. There's no technical reason why the R1 can't be 100 MP. Canon is making 120 MP sensors now. What technical reason do you have that suggests they can't make a full frame sensor for an R1 with at least 100 MP for a future product?

Seeming you're in the industry could you tell if an R1 with the specs I fleshed out be feasible at a $6.5k price point within 15 months?

It cannot weigh more than 1.3kg. Has CIPA rated 1,000+ frames every full charge.

At minimum it has to have an amalgamation of all the best features of the

- Sony A1
- Nikon Z9
- Canon R3

Naturally not APS-H image sensor as Canon abandoned it by 2012 with the 1D X.

dolina wrote in post #19428868
Seeming you're in the industry could you tell if an R1 with the specs I fleshed out be feasible at a $6.5k price point within 15 months?

At minimum it has to have an amalgamation of all the best features of the

- Sony A1
- Nikon Z9
- Canon R3

Naturally not APS-H image sensor as Canon abandoned it by 2012.

Yep- definitely a politician. You don't provide a reason why, given that Canon is making 120 MP pixels sensors now, a technical reason why they can't put it in the R1.

As those cameras max out at 50 MP, and the Sony A1 is already $6,500 USD, there's no reason why Canon can't combine them for that same price- but that's irrelevant to whether they could make an R1 with 100 MP.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19428874
Yep- definitely a politician. You don't provide a reason why, given that Canon is making 120 MP pixels sensors now, a technical reason why they can't put it in the R1.

As those cameras max out at 50 MP, and the Sony A1 is already $6,500 USD, there's no reason why Canon can't combine them for that same price- but that's irrelevant to whether they could make an R1 with 100 MP.

Jack, you're being a jack ass.

dolina wrote in post #19428876
Jack, you're being a jack ass.

No, just expressing my frustration with people who won't answer the question, like politicians in the USA. Maybe the ones in the Philippines are good and honest, who want to be elected for the good of the country, and make decisions on the best facts and science available at the time.

I did answer your question, as honestly as I can. And being a jack ass is better by far than being a politician, at least in the USA.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19428878
No, just expressing my frustration with people who won't answer the question, like politicians in the USA. Maybe the ones in the Philippines are good and honest, who want to be elected for the good of the country, and make decisions on the best facts and science available at the time.

I did answer your question, as honestly as I can. And being a jack ass is better by far than being a politician, at least in the USA.

Jack,

You purposefully disrupt the flow of discussion with tech that you admit has never been introduced into digital still cameras. It appears to have military and espionage applications like military spy satellite or drones.

So I tried to constructively divert your need to participate by asking if the R1 100 megapixel image sensor with the specs I listed can be done for $6.5k by Dec 2023 release.

CR has a track record of clickbait of mashing two bodies into one to get more ad revenue that they badly need.

They've demonstrated this behavior a few weeks ago by having 3-4 separate posting of Canon refusing to allow 3rd party lenses.

The R1 will be closer to 8k than 6.5k

dolina wrote in post #19428884
Jack,

You purposefully disrupt the flow of discussion with tech that you admit has never been introduced into digital still cameras. It appears to have military and espionage applications like military spy satellite or drones.

So I tried to constructively divert your need to participate by asking if the R1 100 megapixel image sensor with the specs I listed can be done for $6.5k by Dec 2023 release.

CR has a track record of clickbait of mashing two bodies into one to get more ad revenue that they badly need.

They've demonstrated this behavior a few weeks ago by having 3-4 separate posting of Canon refusing to allow 3rd party lenses.

What does any of this have to do with whether Canon has the technology now to put a 100 MP sensor into a hypothetical R1?

jcothron wrote in post #19428889
The R1 will be closer to 8k than 6.5k

You are most probably right.

It is also possible that when the R1 gets relased 15 months from now it will take over $6.5k that is occupied by the R3. Then have the R3 slide down to $4.5k.