same image in multiple threads

I've been reading, and resisting the urge to say much here as I see both sides of this and I'm certainly guilty of cross-posting.

Be that as it may, it strikes me as there is a unwritten benefit to a lot of the cross-posting.

Examples:

I consider the threads such as 2022 landscapes, bird portraits, etc. to be community threads of sorts. There is a lot of sharing and from time to time a lot of discussion. I suppose I would consider threads of that type to be the MAIN image sharing threads. Before it is said, yes I understand not everyone shoots landscapes, and I'm sure there are threads for other topics that would fit this definition.

Lens sample threads: I consider those to be for research for prospective buyers as much as anything else. Where possible I have nearly always cross-posted images to those threads, so that people curious about the lens in question can see images from those lenses. I've used them myself in that way. I don't see these as threads where people "hang out" so to speak.

Lens body threads: To me they seem to be a mix of the two, both as examples of what a camera body does..and also a place to exchange information with other owners of the body in question.

Without mentioning names, I can say that I receive private inquiries about lenses and bodies asking various things about them. Why private I'm not sure, but it doesn't matter I'm happy to provide whatever assistance I can.


There is a time and place for everything, and I think it is very difficult to assign hard and fast rules to activity such as this. As Jake mentioned, you risk alienating significant contributors to this forum over the years by being too stringent either one way or another. Seems to me posters should just use their best judgement as to whether cross-posting an image is appropriate or not. It won't always be in agreement with other posters, but so what? It's not a life and death matter, assuming it is done in such a way as to not encroach on the forums IT resources as Pekka outline. We are all different in our perspectives, that's part of what makes a "place" like this successful in the first place. Warts and all, I've seen this forum thrive for the most part, when many others like it have fallen apart. I'd be careful about tinkering too much with something that works. My $.02.

i get a bit annoyed seeing the same images (typically portraits) in BW, Urban with people, Prime Lens, Headshots, etc. i wont 'like them' more than once...

i do my best not to cross post primarily because i dont think my work is worthy of being spread all over the place. that said, i shot some models a couple of weeks ago and put them one of the People threads and then thought, almost ALL OF THESE could also have been perfect for Natural Light. but ive resisted and i wont cross post them. if you havent seen them go to the Prime Lens thread!!! hurry! chop chop (as my daughter would say) lol

this is also a good time to throw out this little PSA "go give some monetary support to the forum". im going to go do that now.

okay...

im back. i can NOT find the information post for donating to the page...

point me in the right direction please?

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp

Pekka wrote in post #19437094
I coded some statistics stuff.

SEARCHING 50,000 LATEST POSTS FOR IMG TAGS IN FORUM 91 (Birds in photo sharing)
40,809 UNIQUE IMG URLS FOUND IN THOSE POSTS.

1726 crossposted image URLs found.
members who has done it: 146 (I know their names )
URL was crossposted once: 1622
URL was crossposted twice: 95
URL was crossposted three times: 4
URL was crossposted four times: 5

This does not take into account what kind of images they are. Some may post emoticons many times and so on. Crossposting image only once seems to be the most common M.O.
IMG inside quotes we not counted.

One way to reduce crossposting would be to not add any more camera bodies to the gear list, like with the R7, stopping photos from being put into your gallery!

Ltdave wrote in post #19437468
i get a bit annoyed seeing the same images . . . i wont 'like them' more than once...

Me neither. An image gets one Like no matter how many times I see it. Giving three or four, say, for the same image would "reward" a member for reposting and wouldn't reflect how much I admired the image. That would be kind of unfair to members whose images were just as admirable who didn't repost.

Not everyone limits Likes this way. (People think differently. Remember, you heard it here first!) I've received duplicate Likes from a few people when I reused images. Reusing them is common in the noncompetitive threads in Competitions, like A-Z and The Photo Below Me.

OhLook wrote in post #19437512
I've received duplicate Likes from a few people when I reused images.

Right. I even feel a little icky when i get an additional like for the same photo from the same person. I like recognition like any other fool, but it raises salient questions, doesn't it:

Were you even paying any attention? Are you just liking every photo that blows past you, willy nilly? You wouldn't know me on the street, yet you behave this way? Are you late on the Rx refill? Are you stalking me? Etc., etc, etc.

Yeah, one and done.

PineBomb wrote in post #19437520
Right. I even feel a little icky when i get an additional like for the same photo from the same person. I like recognition like any other fool, but it raises salient questions, doesn't it:

Were you even paying any attention? Are you just liking every photo that blows past you, willy nilly? You wouldn't know me on the street, yet you behave this way? Are you late on the Rx refill? Are you stalking me? Etc., etc, etc.

My imaginings of their mental state are less exciting. Maybe they forgot they'd seen the image before. Or they might be acting on their feelings in the present moment, without regard for anything in the past. Or they recognize the image as a repeat and aren't sure they Liked it before––maybe it's borderline in their judgment and they don't remember––so they do it now.

OhLook wrote in post #19437526
My imaginings of their mental state are less exciting. Maybe they forgot they'd seen the image before. Or they might be acting on their feelings in the present moment, without regard for anything in the past. Or they recognize the image as a repeat and aren't sure they Liked it before––maybe it's borderline in their judgment and they don't remember––so they do it now.

Lol. Indeed. When looking at 5 pages of bird pics, sometimes you won't know if you have already seen one on another thread. So you click. Or not. It's not important.

OhLook wrote in post #19437526
My imaginings of their mental state are less exciting. Maybe they forgot they'd seen the image before. Or they might be acting on their feelings in the present moment, without regard for anything in the past. Or they recognize the image as a repeat and aren't sure they Liked it before––maybe it's borderline in their judgment and they don't remember––so they do it now.

Jeepers OH! Where does that leave me

I double post- already confessed.
I've not a real camera so like to have input into that appropriate thread as I know some just stick to that one.
I post new or often from my gallery as I understood that's why it's there.
Happy to give double posters likes. Often they deserve triple likes

As said many reasons posts get liked again including a fuzzy memory

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19436985
Re the existing rule quoted here;

"Do not post the same image in multiple forums or in multiple posts. The end result will most likely be one of the threads being deleted by a moderator."

That rule, though less clear now, was written long before POTN became filled with the "post your xyz images here" threads, which are now the bulk of all posts on the forum.

If you read closely though, as I said, it's not so clear. It was meant to prohibit posting multiple new threads started in multiple forums with the same images. The hint being "the end result will most likely be one of the threads being deleted "

It was never meant to prevent sample images from being posted in eg: lens thread, body thread, or subject thread, largely because at the time that sort of thread was not even remotely common on the forum. Times have changed, when this was written, the vast majority of image threads and traffic were begun with a members new thread of their images/adventure. These threads still exist, but they quickly disappear below the these newer public invitation to post threads.

I don't say any of this to dismiss the complaint, it is a valid one. One image does not need to be, and should not be posted in, the 100-400mm thread, the 7D2 thread, the birds pooping thread, and experimental, etc. I definitely empathize with any members sense of order and impulse control.

On the other hand, if this sort of posting is what now makes up the bulk of the forums traffic, if we do re-write the rules to exclude it specifically, and then start to crack down on it, what effect will that have on the forum membership and participation? What a shame to potentially chase off some of our most prolific members, who are decent people, over this.

That was my first thought.

I have just become a regular 'cross poster'. I have started participating in Digital Speed Challenge thread in competitions forum section.
If I continue, many of my entries in that thread will be from my gallery.
This type of cross posting is unlikely to be noticed due to the usually long time period between each post of the same image.
I am definitely not trying to imply my cross posting is OK and other's cross posting is not OK though.

Choderboy wrote in post #19437577
That was my first thought.

I have just become a regular 'cross poster'. I have started participating in Digital Speed Challenge thread in competitions forum section.
If I continue, many of my entries in that thread will be from my gallery.
This type of cross posting is unlikely to be noticed due to the usually long time period between each post of the same image.
I am definitely not trying to imply my cross posting is OK and other's cross posting is not OK though.

It depends, doesn't it. Nobody will mind if you post a pic in a regular thread, say one of the big bird threads and you then use the same image for the Digital Speed Challenge competition, and even if you use it again for the A to Z thread, or whatever. Because they're different entities and they have a very specific purpose. So that's different.

But look at bird shots. Many of us shoot with Canon gear and as such use the same gear. Many of us also follow the same bird threads. And to then see the same image appear in Post Your Bird Portrait, the RF 100-500mm sample thread, the Canon R5 (R6 or R7) thread, the Post Your Herons thread, and what have you, that's just a bit much. I can understand the reason behind it, wanting to post the image also in camera and lens sample threads as show cases. But then why not use a different image from the series and not the exact same image. And the worst are long series of images. Some cross post those in multiple threads. That really gets a bit tiresome...

As to chasing away people by implementing the rules too hard, I don't think that's a good strategy to keep POTN alive. What the forum really needs IMO is maintenance. The forum titles still have not been updated to include the new Canon mirrorless mount (and it's been around for 4 (!) years now). And the last update of the Gear Database was what, 2 years ago? And why is that problem still not solved, when it was there from the very beginning? Solutions have been offered multiple times. Not so much as a reply. Then there are the stickies. They are outdated and crammed with broken links. It's strange, as new and fresh as AMASS was when it launched, it now looks outdated because of the lack of maintenance.

I also think it's a problem that we hardly have any moderators left. I believe a good solid group of moderators could really invigorate the forum. Ten, twelve years ago we had 16 or 18 mods! I am aware that traffic is way down now, but right now we only have two mods (Jake and Lester) still visible on the forum and that's just not enough to moderate the forum 24/7. Lester is also still very much an active poster in the bird forum. Jake, who may actually be the best moderator in the galaxy, pops in once or twice a day, leaves some comments and is off again. It may seem he's very much present, because he has great presence, but he's often gone for 24 hours. So we are left to our own devices most of the time now. When a fight breaks out, it rages and dies down on its own. We moderate ourselves. And the next day a mod, often TD, comes in, deletes some posts, leaves a general warning and that's it. However, I think moderators need to be present and step in as it is happening and not a day later, when all has quieted down. I have at times felt the need for some protection against attacks but with no moderators present, who will offer that?

It also doesn't help that so many members have been banned. And those were more often than not exactly the people with opinions. So yeah, they talked back and yeah, they sometimes caused problems. Well, they're now banned. What nobody seemed to have realized is that they were also the life of the party. If you throw out everybody with an opinion you are left with a pretty docile bunch. Not that those of us who are still here, are. Of course not. I know I'm not. But still, don't ban people so easily. Give a warning, give them a time-out for 2 weeks. But don't ban them permanently, at least not for being opinionated on photography relevant issues.

I love POTN, but right now I just have a feeling that staff doesn't really care anymore. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't think I should have written all that. Here's crossing fingers I don't get banned for it...

avondale87 wrote in post #19437551
I've not a real camera so like to have input into that appropriate thread as I know some just stick to that one.

No real camera? What are those things in your gear list, cardboard mockups?

Choderboy wrote in post #19437577
I have just become a regular 'cross poster'. I have started participating in Digital Speed Challenge thread in competitions forum section.
If I continue, many of my entries in that thread will be from my gallery.

A caution: using a gallery link will inconvenience people who've filtered out the forum that the gallery photo came from. This is more important in challenge threads than in general threads. You don't want the host to do extra work in considering your entry.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19437616
It also doesn't help that so many members have been banned. And those were more often than not exactly the people with opinions. So yeah, they talked back and yeah, they sometimes caused problems. Well, they're now banned. What nobody seemed to have realized is that they were also the life of the party.

Mods have removed my posts when I gave opinions on moral issues even though the two forbidden topics, religion and politics, weren't being discussed. Just saying what you think gets labeled "bickering" because someone else thinks, and says, otherwise. Or posts are deleted as "off topic" even though other threads go way off topic without penalty. This is a problem for me because three or four lobes of my brain are devoted to moral issues. I leave it to other members to decide what brain functions have been hijacked by moral issues and are now missing.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19437616
It depends, doesn't it. Nobody will mind if you post a pic in a regular thread, say one of the big bird threads and you then use the same image for the Digital Speed Challenge competition, and even if you use it again for the A to Z thread, or whatever. Because they're different entities and they have a very specific purpose. So that's different.

But look at bird shots. Many of us shoot with Canon gear and as such use the same gear. Many of us also follow the same bird threads. And to then see the same image appear in Post Your Bird Portrait, the RF 100-500mm sample thread, the Canon R5 (R6 or R7) thread, the Post Your Herons thread, and what have you, that's just a bit much. I can understand the reason behind it, wanting to post the image also in camera and lens sample threads as show cases. But then why not use a different image from the series and not the exact same image. And the worst are long series of images. Some cross post those in multiple threads. That really gets a bit tiresome...

As to chasing away people by implementing the rules too hard, I don't think that's a good strategy to keep POTN alive. What the forum really needs IMO is maintenance. The forum titles still have not been updated to include the new Canon mirrorless mount (and it's been around for 4 (!) years now). And the last update of the Gear Database was what, 2 years ago? And why is that problem still not solved, when it was there from the very beginning? Solutions have been offered multiple times. Not so much as a reply. Then there are the stickies. They are outdated and crammed with broken links. It's strange, as new and fresh as AMASS was when it launched, it now looks outdated because of the lack of maintenance.

I also think it's a problem that we hardly have any moderators left. I believe a good solid group of moderators could really invigorate the forum. Ten, twelve years ago we had 16 or 18 mods! I am aware that traffic is way down now, but right now we only have two mods (Jake and Lester) still visible on the forum and that's just not enough to moderate the forum 24/7. Lester is also still very much an active poster in the bird forum. Jake, who may actually be the best moderator in the galaxy, pops in once or twice a day, leaves some comments and is off again. It may seem he's very much present, because he has great presence, but he's often gone for 24 hours. So we are left to our own devices most of the time now. When a fight breaks out, it rages and dies down on its own. We moderate ourselves. And the next day a mod, often TD, comes in, deletes some posts, leaves a general warning and that's it. However, I think moderators need to be present and step in as it is happening and not a day later, when all has quieted down. I have at times felt the need for some protection against attacks but with no moderators present, who will offer that?

It also doesn't help that so many members have been banned. And those were more often than not exactly the people with opinions. So yeah, they talked back and yeah, they sometimes caused problems. Well, they're now banned. What nobody seemed to have realized is that they were also the life of the party. If you throw out everybody with an opinion you are left with a pretty docile bunch. Not that those of us who are still here, are. Of course not. I know I'm not. But still, don't ban people so easily. Give a warning, give them a time-out for 2 weeks. But don't ban them permanently, at least not for being opinionated on photography relevant issues.

I love POTN, but right now I just have a feeling that staff doesn't really care anymore. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't think I should have written all that. Here's crossing fingers I don't get banned for it...

Some good points there.

I have thought about a possibility to revoke permanent ban in some specific case. You can PM me to suggest names, and we'll discuss it in mod area. Problem in most cases there has been a very good reason for banning, and what is there to prove their behavior has changed since? When someone is banned the reasons are often not seen to all. The banned may have been lively, but quality of liveliness is also important.

If you have time, some help how to redo the stickies would be great.

I'm going to dive into some of the many excellent points you raised next, but i do want to speak to this one 1st, because I think it illustrates a fundamental double edged sword that effects all of the rest.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19437616
It also doesn't help that so many members have been banned. And those were more often than not exactly the people with opinions. So yeah, they talked back and yeah, they sometimes caused problems. Well, they're now banned. What nobody seemed to have realized is that they were also the life of the party. If you throw out everybody with an opinion you are left with a pretty docile bunch. Not that those of us who are still here, are. Of course not. I know I'm not. But still, don't ban people so easily. Give a warning, give them a time-out for 2 weeks. But don't ban them permanently, at least not for being opinionated on photography relevant issues.

I was actually surprised to see this come up today. More so, within the context of the rest of your post.

I am afraid that personally I have to agree with you that things got out of hand for some years, but I feel as if we have had few, if any, bans for quite a long time now. In fact, I could dig up the date that this trend changed dramatically, as it changed when I came back out of retirement from being POTN Moderator. It changed immediately and very thoroughly. The era of POTN Ban-hammer was in fact exactly the reason I came out of retirement. So mention of that time as if it were relevant today does confuse me.
And yet, I guess the legacy remains. To this day, I occasionally see a bumped zombie thread, and come across an old POTN friends' name with BANNED under it, and dive into the history to see why? Can I get them back?

What's more confounding is that you are referencing that time period right after the considerable effort put into voicing your concerns re: current moderation. Of course moderation does not need to be soaked in bans, but it was this same restructuring that dialed in the ban's that has led us back to the more approachable, much more tolerant, less authoritarian POTN attitude towards moderation. Very conflicting IMHO.

The double edged sword I mentioned at the top.

More moderation please, but don't enforce anything when it gets down to the bottom line
(the only tool we have when members absolutely refuse to follow rules, are suspensions/bans.)

Even in the heyday of POTNs' Mod Squad with suspensions occurring regularly, as a team it is imperative not to escalate minor infractions into a confrontation that can only end in someone leaving. So choosing to come down on cross posting, brings us back to what I mentioned in my first reply. There are too many good people posting on POTN, in this very thread, that I'd really not enjoy opening a confrontation that results in their departure or ban.

Speaking for myself, I think POTN could use more moderator coverage, for exactly the reasons you mention. Time online being a huge one. That definitely falls on me, as recruitment is my charge. I am going to take your comments as evidence that some of the data I have been operating under, might be misguided. (We have fewer conflicts, fewer reason to ban, the mod to active member ratio is actually not that low, etc. ) That said, having 24 hour coverage of a forum is a very heavy load to lift, even with significantly more numbers than we have today.