Please Help!!! Canon R7 and Eagle Disaster!

Hello All,

I recently purchased an R7. Over the weekend I got some very nice images of small birds. Today, I gave it a real test at the local Eagle's nest.
It was a complete disaster. Out of almost 100 images, virtually none of the photos are usable. I had the camera set up for Animals with Eye Detection.
I realize there's a bit of a learning curve with mirrorless, but in ten years I've never had such a bad day. In Canon's DPP software, the Focus Box
is centered on the Eagle in practically every frame. The two photos shown are ten frames apart and equally bad. Can anyone give me any ideas where I went wrong???
Anyone with a similar experience? I'm no stranger to Canon DSLR's. I currently shoot with a 60D, 7DM1, 7DM2, and a 5DM4 and 5 different EF lenses and a couple EF-S.
The Lens I used for these photos was my venerable 400 5.6L, an absolute work-horse of a lens, also the camera was mounted on a tripod for these shots. The Camera was updated
to the latest software 1.2.0. As I mentioned earlier, I have taken some nice photos of small birds with the same lens, and some nice photos around the house with an EF-S.

I must be doing something wrong. Any help would be much appreciated. I'm really kinda stunned.............

Jim

My shooting buddy went through a similar struggle with the r7, there is a learning curve. What he has found is that the eye and animal focus doesn't respond well to subjects that faraway and in such a cluttered environment. When you look at your sample it's a bit unrealistic to expect the af to grab the eyes that are only a few pixels and even the animal focus is unlikely to select the eagle out of that clutter. The good news is once the eagle is a bit closer the af responds well. He ended up programming some custom settings that use a combo of eye and animal af within different zones to start. For flight shots against a plain skyall points are enabled, for nest and launch shots he starts with a smaller zone surrounding the center point, that also works for flight shots against trees or cliffs. Just accept that the system will help you but it's probably not as infallible as you think.

Thanks much Gonzo!! Your reply was clear and concise, and all of your points are well taken! In the morning, I'll start the process
of scrolling through the menus, to see how I can improve the settings. I probably was expecting a little too much, especially first time out.

However, one aspect still bothers me. If you look closely at either of the two photos, the backgroud branches are in focus, the Canon software
clearly shows the Autofocus Point directly on the Eagle. How can that be?

If anyone has any thoughts about it, please let me know.

Jim

DPP shows you which focus point was used but it does not show you where the camera actually focussed. So even if the focus point is on the eagle, the camera may have focussed somewhere else. Could be because you moved, or because your subject didn’t have enough contrast and the camera looked for something else nearby to focus on.

As gonzogolf said, try getting closer. And have an assist AF mode without tracking you can switch to for when Face/Eye AF doesn’t work.

Jim, I'm having the same issues with the R7. This is for distant birds with a busy background. The camera finds the eye (sometimes) but despite that, inexplicably focuses on the background. Behavior varies, though. In another thread, Lester Wareham suggested programming a button for spot AF without eye detection to help select the subject. I have tried that and sometimes it works, but it too is undependable.

As you watch through the viewfinder, the tracking/focus squares can jump around quite a bit in situations like this. What it means is not very clear, except that the camera is confused. Focus is not consistent. In a sequence of shots, focus varies.

Here is one of mine. It is cropped.

Interesting.
Don't have R7 but can relate. Levina comments made me realise there's a difference.
One simply can't take focus point as recorded to be what the camera chooses to focus on.

In your case Jim, mounted on tripod, with probably time to adjust, can you use manual focus ?
Imagine the bird wouldn't move much or be outside depth of field tolerances.

Doesn't solve problem as like me, want the camera to do the focusing.
That's what you've paid it to do

avondale87 wrote in post #19477326
Interesting.
Don't have R7 but can relate. Levina comments made me realise there's a difference.
One simply can't take focus point as recorded to be what the camera chooses to focus on.

When focusing, you can see the camera grab the eye, yet not focus on it.

The eye AF just selects the position of the focus point. Then focusing takes place. The AF point is way bigger than it appears in the viewfinder. The camera focuses on what it finds in that square. Usually there is motion when handholding, with different things moving under the AF point. So the result is hard to predict, but often focus goes to a high contrast background if the eye is small compared to the AF point.

Archibald wrote in post #19477330
When focusing, you can see the camera grab the eye, yet not focus on it.

The eye AF just selects the position of the focus point. Then focusing takes place. The AF point is way bigger than it appears in the viewfinder. The camera focuses on what it finds in that square. Usually there is motion when handholding, with different things moving under the AF point. So the result is hard to predict, but often focus goes to a high contrast background if the eye is small compared to the AF point.

Thanks Ed.
I wasn't thinking past standard autofocus. Not eye, animal or some other named setting.
I can appreciate any tracking mode has it's work cut out chasing what supposedly it's set to.
My thoughts were on a straightforward (non tracking) focus point set on a stationary birds head should be more than capable of nailing the focus.
But maybe it still gets astray and actually focuses elsewhere? I imagine optics, atmospherics clash and influence this also.
Maybe Levina wasn't thinking my way but yours. So I've probably just thrown in a red herring

Richard, I am just describing what I am observing in the field with the camera, and offering an explanation. I don't think I can offer an solution, but perhaps going to spot AF improves the chances of getting focus where we want it.

While the eye AF is amazing on the R cameras, it does require you to be "in range" to work best, I have found

I have also found that in cluttered environments and for birds that have a black head and a black eye, thereby providing very little differentiation between the eye and the surrounding plumage, eye detection can have trouble. Usually, for me, it results in the focus locking on to the surrounding branches, in which case I switch to spot focus (which I have programmed for the * button). If you have the AF-ON button programmed for eye AF and the * button programmed for spot AF (this is with BBF, of course), you can quickly switch between the two.

Eye AF is amazing but not infallible, sadly.

Eagle Disaster Part 2

Hello again,

I very much appreciate everyone's input.......BUT

I have been watching this nest for 10 years! First with the 60D, then 7D, and then 7DM2. I have taken hundreds and hundreds of images of the eagles alone.
Quite a few of my Eagle and other photos have been used by the NPS, and other Parks. I'm not a greenhorn.

Here's the thing: I went back to the eagle nest today (Wednesday). I disabled Animal and Eye tracking entirely. I set up the R7 just as though it was a 7DM2.
I saw a great deal of the eagles from the same position I have photo'd them for years. BTW, you can't get any closer without Trespassing! The distance was NEVER
a problem with the 400 5.6L and 7DM2. The photo below was taken with SPOT focus, centered on Eagle in Servo Mode, Back Button Focus, Etc. The eagle was screaming
for its mate. Over a period of 14 seconds. I took 20 photos. I didn't stomp on the shutter button and fill the buffer in one second, but slowly and deliberately squeezed the shutter button
in one's and two's as the 20 photos in 14 seconds would show. EVERY single photo in that sequence is blurred, like the one below. Not talking about Eye detection here or Animal Tracking.
Stationary subject, Spot Focus, Tripod mounted. The 7d would have nailed it.

I'm absolutely willing to concede that I'm at fault, somehow, but I'm thinking it must be the camera at this point. Between yesterday and today over 400 photos and hardly
a usable one in the bunch.

ANY IDEAS ANYONE????

Thanks Arch!

I appreciate your reply. I've posted an update, taking Eye autofocus out of the equation.
Still poor results.

Hello Avondale,

I've posted an update. As I mention there, it was NEVER a problem with the 7D. It's hard for me to believe that a state of the art camera could possibly be worse than
a camera that's 6 or 7 years older. I just don't get it.......

Jim

Please check my update. The "Range" was never a problem before. Why would this camera not be up to it???

Not trying to be smart, but something is wrong. I so want it to work. I've taken wonderful photos of the Eagles using my 60D at the same distance!!!
That's an 11 year old camera.

Jim