Canon R3 Eye DETECTION question

apersson850 wrote in post #19551983
Ah, finally I understand what you mean.

If we refer to the page from the manual, that one you show in this thread above, it has two seemingly different settings.

• Eye detection AF
  
• Eye detection
  

The eye detection in these two items is exactly the same. The difference is in how you apply it.
If we start with the last one, eye detection, it's completely equivalent to how the menu setting works. Each time you press the assigned button, it will toggle the menu setting between ON and OFF. This function can be applied to a large range of buttons.
The first item, eye detection AF, will control exactly the same function. But here it's not a toggle happening each time you press the button. Instead it's a part of the registered AF function setup, which will be applied as long as you keep on pressing the button. You can select among seven items if they should be affected by pressing the button or not. If they are active, you can then select if they should go ON or OFF. If you set ON and it's already ON, nothing happens. But if you set OFF it's forced OFF as long as you keep the button pressed.
This setting can't be applied to as many different buttons as the other (toggle) option.

I don't think this is very well explained in the manual. It's my experience from how this registered AF function works in my previous cameras that made me understand it easily.

Thanks, I've been mystified by those two on my R7 too. But what you've explained makes sense.

I was about to post the following, but Scott has me questioning more. I do not think my EyeDetection AF works unles Subject Tracking is enabled. Does not matter is a sunbject is selected or off, but tracking "appears" to be a requirement for this to work. Just tried again. Does NOT work without Subject Tracking.

Can I assume that you have tried this with Subject Tracking disabled, Scott?

And does not go full screen for me. Goes to whatever focusing area is required to find an eye which varies on the scene. Sometimes spot, sometimes surround. SO I think our other "default" settings influeneces this more than we think.

And yes, poorly documented and explained anywhere!!

Here is what I had intened to post:

OK, I think I've got it all. Thanks And I don't think its a function for me. But now I can make an informed decision.

ED AF requires Subject Tracking ( I always have it on). Does not require Eye Detection enabled as this enables it in this function. So for the way I might use this could be more than a single button press.

I much prefer a Focus and Metering setting on a button that enables people, enables eye detection, is on servo and finds and locks onto an eye. For the way I shoot.

So now I know....

Yes, eye detection AF categorically works with subject tracking disabled. I've just tried it. Subject tracking only determines whether or not the camera follows what you have focused on across the frame. Subject and/or eye detection controls what the camera focuses on. It's perfectly possible to set the camera to detect and focus on eyes, but not track them.

(This is all documented btw. There's an Advanced User Guide available as well as the regular User Manual. I also remember seeing an R3 Autofocus Settings Guide somewhere online.)

I've just run a quick test to confirm what I've said above. I put a stuffed toy (Bagpuss FWIW) in the top right of the frame and positioned my single focus point in the lower left. I had eye detection enabled, and subject tracking off. If I press the AF-ON button, the camera ignores Bagpuss and focuses where the AF point is. If I press the * button (assigned to Eye detection AF), the camera focuses on Bagpuss' eye closest to the camera, even though it's nowhere near the AF point.

Not for me. So must be some other variable. I do not have to have a subject (people, animals) selected. That can be off. But Subject Tracking MUST be on or ED AF just searches looking for something. Multiple flashing fous points. With Subject Tracking on, works as you describe.

Odd.

And Subject Tracking would only follow something focused on in Servo Mode. And does for me.

For my R3 (firmware 1.4.1) to detect eyes at all, this is required:

• Subject tracking on
  
• Subject to identify set to something else than OFF
  
• Eye detection set on
  

Interesting. Yet a third variable. For me, just Subject Tracking for Eye Detection AF to work on a button. i do belive it performes better with People or Animals selected, but not required. And it enables eye detection by definition, so that does not need to be enabled in the menus (or button) before using ED AF.

For me, of course.

Latest firmware by the way. 1.4.4 I believe.


So I cannot see it working for Scott without at LEAST Subject Tracking enabled.

I've just checked again, and I was wrong - in part.

Your original question was about the Eye detection AF custom function, and I stand by what I said above. This does NOT require subject tracking or eye detection to be enabled beforehand to work. If you assign this custom function to a button, then press the button, it appears to do the following while you continue to hold the button:
1) Select whole area AF
2) Enable eye detection
3) Enable subject tracking
When you release the button, the above settings revert to their previous values. I use this function literally every time I pick up the camera, so I know it works. I normally leave subject tracking and eye detection enabled, but I have tested the above with both disabled, and it still works. Unfortunately, I have no way of recording my viewfinder, otherwise I would have uploaded a video of it in action.

Outside of the custom function (i.e. if you are using whatever your normal focus settings are) then I agree, it appears subject tracking needs to be enabled for eye detection to work.

How interesting. We have two so far that experience it not working without subject trackin enabled. For me, the ED AF does not do that.

I wonder where the differences might be.

Scott_online wrote in post #19552363
while you continue to hold the button:
1) Select whole area AF
2) Enable eye detection
3) Enable subject tracking

That makes sense. When I was pouring through EXIF data while messing with the shots on page 1 of this thread, I noticed that, while on ED/AF the Eye Detect value was set to 'Auto'. I bet those 3 things on your list come with enabling that ED/AF setting.

I suspect that you can mix and match those settings ala carte, but the ED/AF combo meal comes with everything.

Not for me. Without Subject Tracking enabled BEFORE using ED AF, it will not look for an eye.

Just tried it on my R7. Tracking and ED both off in the menu. ED/AF assigned to a button. Hold down the button it picks up an eye, focuses on it and tracks it.

rebop wrote in post #19552349
Latest firmware by the way. 1.4.4 I believe.

By this date version 1.4.1 is the latest. It was issued in April.

apersson850 wrote in post #19552566
By this date version 1.4.1 is the latest. It was issued in April.

Sorry. That was fat fingered.

AntonLargiader wrote in post #19552518
Just tried it on my R7. Tracking and ED both off in the menu. ED/AF assigned to a button. Hold down the button it picks up an eye, focuses on it and tracks it.

Thanks for checking, but please explain "tracks it"? This is one shot so can see the eye, focus, but not track unless you are in servo mode which ED AF is not.

rebop wrote in post #19552610
Thanks for checking, but please explain "tracks it"? This is one shot so can see the eye, focus, but not track unless you are in servo mode which ED AF is not.

As in tracks the eye across the frame.

I'm really confused about what you are trying to establish here? Subject tracking will not work unless the AF is set to Servo. The Eye-detect AF custom function is just a quick way of temporarily selecting the 3 settings listed above. If you have the AF set to One-shot, the Eye-detect AF custom function will be of little to no use to you - but you don't have to use it. If however, you have the AF set to Servo (and the R3 is primarily a sports/action camera after all) then I find it a really useful feature for fast-changing situations where I would otherwise be unable to move the focus point in time.