THE MOST IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO ALL

joayne wrote in post #19566453
It seems the POTN family is going through the many stages of grief.
I know I am.
First is denial,
As in ... This Can't be Happening.
Anger.. How can this happen to me?
Bargaining .. As we are doing now
Next ... Depression
At some point there is Acceptance
I think the Acceptance with be the hardest part.

it's really hard, grief and denial is something. we take things for granted, we only believed that potn will stay and Pekka's children would take over (jk), now that it will be gone.. we are feeling it.

We lost a great friend a couple years ago, his photography and posts are on here. It is something that we would remember him by... so it's really sad to see this go, not just the information and images, but the old members that are no longer with us.

maybe one day forums will be a thing again. old is new. all of this will be backed up and restore when that day comes :P

Acceptance is the end and yet, anything else is a bonus.........

DTBaan wrote in post #19566460
We lost a great friend a couple years ago, his photography and posts are on here. It is something that we would remember him by... so it's really sad to see this go, not just the information and images, but the old members that are no longer with us.

I never realized the impact of POTN being hosted on proprietary software would be and assumed that it would be around forever. There are several members such as Dan (Woolburr) or PhotosGuy who were very active here for many years. Dan has been immortalized in the Red Ring Tupperware thread and the Fireworks thread. I found it odd that in a way they lived on here at POTN. I guess I have moved on to the depression phase.

No more game playing (WAIN - where am I now), no more info about updates, new camera models. No interesting discussions about the best settings for this or that.
The POTN community was a peaceful ans tolerant one compared to some other fora and Facebook groups. I'll really miss it.
Thank you Pekka for all the work you have done (and are still doing). As a webmaster for several club web sites over the years I know how much work it is to keep thing going and - more importantly - safe from hackers.
Constant recoding and updating... I lost track of developments in PHP and MySQL and had to give up when I turned 78 and got cancer...
Take care my friend and enjoy life.

Hello Pekka.
I'd like to talk to you more about keeping our community alive. I'd be happy to work at organizing resources asap.

Like most, This is is the first place I came to when I started out with Photography. It deserves to live on.

I'll send a PM now

thank you, so much, for updating everyone and not just letting this go.

Thank you for almost 19 years of learning and enjoyment. Your site is and has been the best!

Stay safe and enjoy life!

Gary Bowen

Pekka wrote in post #19566404
Dear friends,

I am truly moved to tears when seeing the supportive and loving comments to this thread. Thank you!!!

Frankly, I immediately felt bad to make such an announcement --- not yet reverting it, though

I'll comment on a few raised questions:

1. AMASS software data can not be converted to commercial forum databases without very extensive coding. When I did a conversion system from vBulletin to AMASS 1.0, it was a year worth of coding and testing, AMASS 2.58 is much more complex. A bit like transforming a Golf to Maserati. AMASS data is split to 7 Redis instances (RAM based storage for sessions, data delivery), 146 separate databases (technical note: no UNION queries are used). Redis and MariaDB work in parallel to deliver pages. Gear data and ratings are integer-based data which links to PHP/Redis arrays for content. Nothing is "simple" here. All that with my coding enables the "instant response" speed and also makes it light enough to serve thousands of clients without delay on ONE physical server. The setup that is running now is very stable - I have booted it once (updating OS) in three years. The server scripts and CRONs basically maintain all automatically. Server moves are the dreaded big job (see below)

2. Server and other cost is not high at all, about 300 Euros a month but for my lousy musician salary, finnish taxes and other bills it is not comforable. I'm the only one earning salary in family.

3. Time is more of an issue. I have to be here every day to download big backups, handle problems, monitor and maintain. Next summer I would need to change to different Linux distro which means completely a new server to install, test everything, revise code to new versions of system programs, PHP, Javascript etc. -- done in parallel to this one. My summer holidays during the years have been mostly taken by coding AMASS and doing server updates and I prefer to have that time to family and other activities.

4. Subscription, monthly or yearly, would pay for the server but not give me more time - I grant that some profit from this would be not bad, but: with paid membership there would be even less active people, and if say, 300-500, would pay and post almost daily (because they pay they come more often), it would make this sort of a stalled private forum and I would be stuck to it even more. Also, when you start to get payments, the demands for support and code fixes are more like "have to do quickly" than "when time". I have no company to run this, so I would have to create on if selling paid services - yet another stress and time-eater.

PS.
I am saddened by news of Levinas illness - never give up hope, Levina.

Pekka,
So it sounds like no amount of money will keep this going due to the demands on your personal time. Correct? If so, it's inevitable that the current POTN will be shutdown.

But there's a way for the spirit of this to live on: start from scratch with the same URL (or a new one) pointing to a new forum hosted on new servers by some other internet provider. To get an estimate on the costs to do that we'd need to know:
-monthly bandwidth
-total size of stored images. This is for understanding the potential storage needs. On day 1 there would be zero images. People would add them just as they do now or host them on sites such as Imgur.com.
-required throughput of servers
-number of *ACTIVE * users.

There's plenty of free, supported forum software out there such as https://www.simplemach​ines.org/ . I've set up forums for two organizations using it and it's pretty easy. Once the backend is set up by the internet provider, the front end is easy to configure/modify and requires no intervention unless you want to have memberships approved by mods to keep spammers out. The only other maintenance is monitoring to prevent flame wars but given the mature participants of POTN this seems unlikely.

Open suggestion to POTN users...

After reading Pekka's two posts in this thread, it appears that he is not likely to reverse his decision. Also, he has pointed out the complexity and other problems associated with moving the site to another platform or having someone else take over the site. Many users in this thread have also offered to pay for a subscription model to help the site stay afloat.

I have an idea, and you may either agree or disagree, but I think it would be nice to show our community's appreciation to Pekka by donating to Pekka directly via this site. Such a donation is NOT meant to be an attempt to change Pekka's mind to keep the site afloat, but rather it is a heart-felt thank you to him as he closes the door later this year. Nevertheless, he would be free to do whatever he would like with the donations if he sees any viable future to using the donations to keep the site operating.

All us have different financial situations, but Pekka's devotion to us over the years, in my mind, certainly deserves some recognition as he retires from the site. I have just donated $100, and I invite anyone who may be interested in this suggestion to join me by donating whatever your wallet will bear.

Here's a link to the POTN donation page if you're interested.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp

Thanks again Pekka for looking out for us all these years, and all the best to you.

Tom

I made my contribution last night.

Made my contribution a couple days ago
As I have done monthly (almost)

i-G12 wrote in post #19566446
@Levina...As you know I echo the shock and sorrow everybody has shown regarding your illness. I am very sad and promise I will pray for you every day. It's so easy to say "stay strong" but in reality I know it's not that easy. I can only hope things will go better than expected. We need you out there shooting that shiny new R6 II.

Thank you again for being my friend and being such a wonderful advocate over the years!

Phil

Phil, my good friend, I am at a loss for words about all the kindness and support that you and so many other people are sending my way. Here on the board, in pm’s, emails, it’s amazing. I never expected mentioning my condition would have so much effect on people. I’m quite overwhelmed by it. And moved.

Thank you!

these server charges sounds really high, 300 euros a month could be reduced. Could get this down to 10 to 15 USD a month


It would be possible to either way, but rebooting with our basic user details on a more simple forum script to help streamline.
changing the way we host photos is a great idea

many things are possible.

I don't know if subscription makes since. it's a tough paywall for people who are just learning

Cheers to working together!

Pekka wrote in post #19566404
Dear friends,

I am truly moved to tears when seeing the supportive and loving comments to this thread. Thank you!!!

Frankly, I immediately felt bad to make such an announcement --- not yet reverting it, though

I'll comment on a few raised questions:

1. AMASS software data can not be converted to commercial forum databases without very extensive coding. When I did a conversion system from vBulletin to AMASS 1.0, it was a year worth of coding and testing, AMASS 2.58 is much more complex. A bit like transforming a Golf to Maserati. AMASS data is split to 7 Redis instances (RAM based storage for sessions, data delivery), 146 separate databases (technical note: no UNION queries are used). Redis and MariaDB work in parallel to deliver pages. Gear data and ratings are integer-based data which links to PHP/Redis arrays for content. Nothing is "simple" here. All that with my coding enables the "instant response" speed and also makes it light enough to serve thousands of clients without delay on ONE physical server. The setup that is running now is very stable - I have booted it once (updating OS) in three years. The server scripts and CRONs basically maintain all automatically. Server moves are the dreaded big job (see below)

2. Server and other cost is not high at all, about 300 Euros a month but for my lousy musician salary, finnish taxes and other bills it is not comforable. I'm the only one earning salary in family.

3. Time is more of an issue. I have to be here every day to download big backups, handle problems, monitor and maintain. Next summer I would need to change to different Linux distro which means completely a new server to install, test everything, revise code to new versions of system programs, PHP, Javascript etc. -- done in parallel to this one. My summer holidays during the years have been mostly taken by coding AMASS and doing server updates and I prefer to have that time to family and other activities.

4. Subscription, monthly or yearly, would pay for the server but not give me more time - I grant that some profit from this would be not bad, but: with paid membership there would be even less active people, and if say, 300-500, would pay and post almost daily (because they pay they come more often), it would make this sort of a stalled private forum and I would be stuck to it even more. Also, when you start to get payments, the demands for support and code fixes are more like "have to do quickly" than "when time". I have no company to run this, so I would have to create on if selling paid services - yet another stress and time-eater.

PS.
I am saddened by news of Levinas illness - never give up hope, Levina.

All of this makes perfect sense. You can't argue with any of this. I applaud your honesty here.

Tom in Arizona wrote in post #19566476
Open suggestion to POTN users...

After reading Pekka's two posts in this thread, it appears that he is not likely to reverse his decision. Also, he has pointed out the complexity and other problems associated with moving the site to another platform or having someone else take over the site. Many users in this thread have also offered to pay for a subscription model to help the site stay afloat.

I have an idea, and you may either agree or disagree, but I think it would be nice to show our community's appreciation to Pekka by donating to Pekka directly via this site. Such a donation is NOT meant to be an attempt to change Pekka's mind to keep the site afloat, but rather it is a heart-felt thank you to him as he closes the door later this year. Nevertheless, he would be free to do whatever he would like with the donations if he sees any viable future to using the donations to keep the site operating.

All us have different financial situations, but Pekka's devotion to us over the years, in my mind, certainly deserves some recognition as he retires from the site. I have just donated $100, and I invite anyone who may be interested in this suggestion to join me by donating whatever your wallet will bear.

Here's a link to the POTN donation page if you're interested.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp

Thanks again Pekka for looking out for us all these years, and all the best to you.

Tom

Good idea Tom. Just made a matching donation.

laquena wrote in post #19566484
these server charges sounds really high, 300 euros a month could be reduced. Could get this down to 10 to 15 USD a month


It would be possible to either way, but rebooting with our basic user details on a more simple forum script to help streamline.
changing the way we host photos is a great idea

many things are possible.

I don't know if subscription makes since. it's a tough paywall for people who are just learning

Cheers to working together!

I think that those sites that charge $10~$15 a month have very limited storage and connection capabilities. I would think that POTNs storage needs would be quite large based on the number of pictures here.