THE MOST IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO ALL

Pekka wrote in post #19565433
Hello all,

POTN forum was started 2001 when digital photography was in its infancy- We have seen the great digital camera shooting boom, gear wars, rise or RAW, chimping frenzy, sensors getting better and better, faster AF and failed AF, new lens types, mirrorless cameras and eventually a steady decline of major camera manufacturers, sales dropping every year. There is no one reason for the decline of digital camera, there are several. Better mobile cameras killing people's interest to heavy and expensive systems like SLR with lots of lenses. Photojournalists use iPhones, photographers get less hiring opportunities , families and friends use mobile devices. Some special interest shooters like bird and wedding photographers, sports and action shooters can not really work with phones, but they are a minority. Image quality does not matter much to 99% of people, when viewed on mobile all is sufficient.

Gear has lost its appeal, but what about forums?

Facebook was founded 2004, three years after POTN. Twitter was started 2006. Instagram was founded 2010. Snapchat 2011. Discord 2015, Tik Tok 2016. All those multi-billion dollar companies have conquered the market, created the social media as we know it, intentionally aiming to addict by algorithms, put people into own bubbles, track you to target ads, lose content validity in short time so that new content gets created constantly. Some of them reduce message lengths thus directing young people to short attention span and think less about complete sentences. Photos are shared via social media apps, Whatsapp and cloud services. This trend has sped up in last few years, and AI will change it all again. Soon people won't have to write or create anything - it's all done for them.

Sad truth is that there is no place for conventional forums any more with the recent generations. Traffic is down. Enthusiasm is down. Mood is down. Discussion is down.

There are many old timer members who keep posting, but that does not sustain the site. New members appear, but they do not post much, just browse and like here and there. That is the reality. When everyone had only computers (PC or Mac), writing was much faster and easier - now tapping seems to be the main communication method.

Google delivers fewer and fewer ads in forums (most ad slots are empty, meaning we don't have even a chance to get anything), so for a long time I've had to pay most of the server costs from my own pocket, even with some occasional donations which I appreciate.

Even if financially this wasn't a burden, I do not have time or interest to code by request or set up servers (I've put thousands of hours for POTN during the years). Members can get vey demanding, there's no real joy in this "service" for me any more.

I do not really shoot photos any more, I have other interests and a profession in music.

I'm not getting any younger, health issues due to stress have happened.

What does all this mean?

I have decided to do the only logical option: close down POTN by the end of this year, exact date is to be determined.

POTN has been a big part of my life and I've always been proud of it and enjoyed the social aspect of the forums, this is not something I do lightly nor like it, but all the facts pointed to this inevitable solution.

I'm not planning to keep a "read only" version online, as it needs a rented server. So the only option is to pull the plug in the near future. What the exact date for closing is is not yet decided. I suppose 1 to 2 months after this announcement is sufficient so that people can collect data they need.

There are uploaded images you may want to retrieve (you have originals of course at home), to do that double-click/tap the image to get it to full window, then you can save it normally. They are .duck extension, change those to .jpg in order to view them locally. I can not make an utility to mass-retrieve the images, as it would exceed bandwidth limits and that is very expensive. Again, you already have your originals.

The only option to keep POTN running would be that it gets sold to someone who can manage it. Running it will not be an easy task, whole thing is proprietary (mostly procedural) code in PHP and Javascript, very complex data structures and databases, with specific server configurations and services. I have no time to tutor how to do that but I will help to get started. POTN data is in 14GB zipped backups (tons of databases + several Redis instances), then there are 240GB of images and other files plus server configurations and maintenance scripts which are required. I'll remove PM and mod areas from the package, and also IP database plus session logs. If POTN is sold it is not possible for me to use many parts of my own code for security reasons in any other projects - that will not be cheap. I'm realist, though, and expect no one is interested.

I thank Jake and all the mods for all the work they have done during the 22 years.

I apologize to our members (some have been here over 20 years) that the site can not go on, but nothing lasts forever. I fully intented to keep this running, but it's not a viable solution any more. All I can say I'm sorry for the situation and mourn loss of a great community. All things come to an end, and it is time to move on.

I bet there will be projects to scrape POTN content somewhere else, but I will try to prevent that. People have posted here under our rules and their copyright - copying it somewhere else is not ok. Also, as said, bandwith costs money.

You may comment on this of course, but please remain civil. I'm sure many of you knew this would happen eventually.

Sincerely,

Pekka Saarinen
Founder, photography-on-the.net

Tom in Arizona wrote in post #19566476
Open suggestion to POTN users...

After reading Pekka's two posts in this thread, it appears that he is not likely to reverse his decision. Also, he has pointed out the complexity and other problems associated with moving the site to another platform or having someone else take over the site. Many users in this thread have also offered to pay for a subscription model to help the site stay afloat.

I have an idea, and you may either agree or disagree, but I think it would be nice to show our community's appreciation to Pekka by donating to Pekka directly via this site. Such a donation is NOT meant to be an attempt to change Pekka's mind to keep the site afloat, but rather it is a heart-felt thank you to him as he closes the door later this year. Nevertheless, he would be free to do whatever he would like with the donations if he sees any viable future to using the donations to keep the site operating.

All us have different financial situations, but Pekka's devotion to us over the years, in my mind, certainly deserves some recognition as he retires from the site. I have just donated $100, and I invite anyone who may be interested in this suggestion to join me by donating whatever your wallet will bear.

Here's a link to the POTN donation page if you're interested.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp

Thanks again Pekka for looking out for us all these years, and all the best to you.

Tom

CameraMan wrote in post #19566490
All of this makes perfect sense. You can't argue with any of this. I applaud your honesty here.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19566482
Phil, my good friend, I am at a loss for words about all the kindness and support that you and so many other people are sending my way. Here on the board, in pm’s, emails, it’s amazing. I never expected mentioning my condition would have so much effect on people. I’m quite overwhelmed by it. And moved.

Thank you!

SkedAddled wrote in post #19566530
It seems that a number of us have already joined and been welcomed at the TP site
mentioned above, anyway. I'll gladly idle my account there for eternity if POTN
manages to get a reprieve, but I'm not really counting on that now.

digital paradise wrote in post #19566362
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Do we really think $120 is a good price? People spend thousands on camera gear but will wait 2 months for BF sales to save $20 on software. I think quite a few would not pay that much. Also there are quite a few people who have a big aversion to the word subscription. Not sure I would use that if I turned this site into a paid membership structure.
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SkedAddled wrote in post #19566543
Hey, does anyone know how to contact Helen Oster?
I can't find her anymore, and she may have changed her username,
but I really think she should know about all of this.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19566545
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I am as poor as they come, yet I would gladly pay $120/year for this site to continue. . And I am a big time penny-pinching cheapskate, believe me! . But this forum is so important that I would betray my cheapness if doing so would keep it alive. . Heck, I might even pay double that much if there were some guarantee that it would live on for years and years and years.

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