1D MKIIN Successor - FPS v Sensor Size?

ACDCROCKS wrote:
As a sports shooter, I wouldnt want a fullframe Mark. 8mp is enough for me, computer is slow enough haha. I dont want to spend more money to catch the computer up whenI could be buying a nice L .

thats why I think the 1D2 will have incredible resale value.

Even at $3600, thats heck of a deal for a brand new body,with a large LCD, let alone FPS. I wish I had one, I surely need it for my career. The only thing I dont like about it is deleting the pics, pressign 2 buttons thing', but I can get useto that haha

This MKII update issue is really bothering me. Really. As I appear to be leaning more and more to sports photography, I would certainly appreciate the 8.5 fps. In addition, as I prefer shallow DOF, I would certainly value 45-point AF - with shallow DOF the marginal for mistake is after all rather low. In addition, the crop factor is rather convenient for my purposes.

All in all, what I would probaply prefer, would be a "baby mark II" body, a 1.6 crop body with 45 AF-points, some 8 fps and other features like 1-series. Yes. Considering the everlasting rumors about 3D, that would just be the body for me, if the high ISO-noise would be comparable to 20D. I would certainly be willing to pay 5D money for such camera.

However, now I am just wondering. I would certainly not prefer FF for less fps. Never. Hope that Canon keeps the high fps vs. high resolution bodies still separate. For the moment, I will not be getting the Mark IIn, while this situation of uncertainity lasts. Just hope that Canon makes some delibarate moves in this class of cameras.

In order to maintain at least the same pixel size stretching 8.2MP to FF would not work. I'm in 'weekend mode' so I'm not doing the math involved but if you're 8.2MP at an APS sensor to acheive the same density to 35mm size you'd have to increase MP by a certain amount.

I usually get a new digital body every two years or so, so I'm anxiously waiting to see what happens in the 5D space. I'm hoping that they'll make minor MkII style improvements but move the price range into the Mid US$2000 range w/o lens.

Then to find the money to get that and the new f/1.2L 85mm lens.

Do you think 10.6 MP at 8.5 FPS would be feasible? Or is it too simplistic to extrapolate an APS sensor to FF by a factor of 1.3 and maintain pixel size?

It would make more sense for Canon to combine the 1D and 1Ds into one camera and give you 16.7MP FF shots in normal speed mode at 4 fps and then in high speed mode it can crop the FF by 1.3 for 9.4MP at 8.5 fps. By cropping the FF by 1.3 then it would only need to write 9.4MP to the buffer making it possible to achive the higher speed, since there is less data.

Nikon already does this with their D2Xs camera by taking their 12.4MP 1.5x CMOS sensor at 5 fps and cropping it further to 2X for 6.8MP at 8 fps. If Nikon made a FF sensor using the pixel density of the current D2X, it would be 27.5MP.

So I think Canon will come out with the 1Ds Mark III 22MP (1x) at 4fps, 16.9MP (1.3x) at 8.5 fps, and DIG!C III processor for under $5000 US.

Also with the 5D they can also do the same and have 2 speed modes, since currently they both have the same pixel density. so there will be a 5D Mark III 12.8MP (1x) at 4fps, 8.2MP (1.3x) at 8.5 fps, and DIG!C III processor for under $3000 US.

and both the 1Ds and 5D cameras have the following:
45 AF points
21-zone TTL full aperture metering
X-sync at 1/250 sec
Picture Styles
Multiple Exposure
Auto ISO Mode
Weather Sealed
USB 2.0
2.5in LCD
Live preview mode
WiFi built-in (Canon is currently doing it with their PowerShot SD430 and Digital IUX, why should I add an additional bulky piece to the bottom of my camera)

If they did that I'll be cheering all the way to my local Canon dealer

Cubano you've got a point there. I was initially thinking there was a need for two distinct 1D bodies but in light of the 5D and cropped sensor technologies there's certainly a case for merging the two. If Nikon can pull off cropped sensors then Canon should be able to do the same. However, the difference is Nikon's starting and ending points - 12.2 MP at 5.3 FPs (1.5x sensor) and 6.9 MP at 8.0 FPs (2.0x sensor). Canon is now at 16.7 MP at 4.0 FPs (FF sensor) and 8.2 MP at 8.5 FPs (1.3x sensor). Whether Canon can improve on this (or want to from a marketing perspective) when coming up with their cropped sensor yet keep both types of users happy, we'll have to wait and see.

I would think whatever happens they will have a hig res crop, whether thats part of an even higher res FF sensor or not, as sports shooters will generally like using the crop.

current 1.6x pixel density means they could have a 12 megapixel sensor with out too much problem (I'd think), or a FF 20Mp sensor (5529.6x3686.4) with the same pixel densities.

Whatever Canon chooses, as long as its not EVF (with current technology anyway) I'll be happy

20 and 22 megapixel photos? No doubt the detail would be fantastic but my computer would have a coronary trying to handle them.
Surely we're reaching the practical limit of resolution in everyday SLRs (as opposed to the medium formats). I'd love to see a 39mp image but I'm not even certain I could open it in Photoshop - what are they, about 80-90MB in size?

Do you think that we'll see lithium ion batteries replace the NiMH ones in the 1D or is there a specific reason why they've stuck with the older technology?

Although it does seem to make sense, it would be a shame to lose the 1.3x crop. It just seems to be a good compromise in achieving wider focal lengths but still avoiding the worst of the degrading quality around the edges of the lens.

Indeed,. I love the 1.3X and am really married to it now.
I really don't want to give it up.

Still I will likely get the next 1D when it finally arrives..

As to the NIMH Vs. Lithium.. no idea when or if that will finally be replaced.. the weight savings would be nice. If Canon makes the switch to a removeable grip (i'd prefer that option) that's when the current beastly battery would go by the board.

My "reasonable" incremental upgrade 1D MkIII would be 12 or more MP.. 1.3X sensor, removeble grip (it would come with it though being the pro body) higher native ISO for less noise.. improved functonality of the "Personal Functions" settings so we aren't so tethered to the PC to adjust them..

In an unreasonable "dream" camera.. it would also have in body IS.. and double the current Dynamic range.

I think the 12mp (or more) sensor is a reasonable expectation (if not a certainty). Canon surely wouldn't release a new pro body until it can at least match the resolution of the 5D.

A removable grip would be pretty high on my wishlist too. It would no doubt add to the combined weight (although a switch to Li-on may offset that) but the option to separate it and travel lighter when needed would be very attractive. I don't know much about the internals of the camera but I would assume that having the grip built in has freed up space for circuitry and other bits and bobs.

But how would a removable grip impact the renowned ruggedness of the 1D body? The 20D with a grip still feels like a toy compared to a 1D body. Would having a removable grip reduce the 1D to the feel of say a 20D when the grip's attached. I understand there was a film body that came with a removable grip. How did that feel with grip attached compared to the existing 1D?

I have the EOS-3 with the power boost drive (AKA battery grip) and it feels pretty sturdy for the most part. In some respects (except it uses film) I like the control layout better then my 1DsMkII, but in answer to you question, the 1DsMkII feels a touch sturdier and solid then the EOS-3 with grip, but it is very minor and may be caused by the extra weight of the 1DsMkII over the EOS-3 with grip.

As comparison the D60 and 10D with grip felt very flimzy compared to even the EOS-3 with grip. Even without the grip they feel less well constructed as the EOS-3 with grip. From a couple of opportunities the 20D felt the same as the D60/10D, but better then 300D or 350XT. I have never had opportunity to hold 5D or 30D yet.
Oh almost forgot no difference between 1DsMkII and 1DM2 in terms of feel of the build.

The rumor I heard is that the 1D and 1Ds will converge into a single top of the line full frame 22 mp model. It will have an improved 45 sensor AF system and be capable of a respectable fps at full frame. Higher speeds will be obtained by 1.3 and 1.6 crop options that will produce 12 and 8 mp images respectively. The 8 mp mode will be at a higher speed than any existing DSLR. Price will be higher than the current 1DMkIIN and lower than the 1DsMkII, probably somewhere around $5,000 USD.

Ideally a camera like this would have an electronic viewfinder, but I don't believe the technology to produce sufficient quality is there yet. Perhaps they will re-introduce the old pellicule (see through) mirror to enable a faster frames per second.

This is a good point,. and clearly we would not want toi see a compromise here.

But they were able to do it with the Film EOS 1v ==> to Eos 1vHS with removeable grip.. no compromise there. Clearly the grip attachemtn and seal would have to be engineered better than those for the D30-30D.