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Thread started 12 Jun 2006 (Monday) 00:03
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Crop preference and rules?

 
NBEast
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Jun 12, 2006 00:03 |  #1

I'm just beginning to learn portriat photography, specifically couples.

Today's main question is cropping, however all other comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Right off; I'm thinking that a dark background that's too close (no bokeh) is a mistake for brown haired people.

Note: I took this in RAW, 580EX flash.
EXIF data here (external link)

Original composition:

IMAGE: http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/74904177-S.jpg

Trial crop #1:
IMAGE: http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/74904261-S.jpg

Trial crop #2:
IMAGE: http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/74904074-S.jpg


Indeed: Here's one with lighter background and more bokeh. Much better (backgrounding) I think. True?

Also, light temp is 5850K, the other was 4450K. Didn't take WB reference, another rookie move. :( EXIF here (external link)
IMAGE: http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/74907820-S.jpg

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mavericksupersonic
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Jun 12, 2006 14:31 |  #2

NBEast,

I am no pro, but when I take portraits, I prefer for the people to be right in the middle. Personally, i would like #2 with a little more showing on the right and a little less on the left.

Also, the flash in the first shots seems to be a little strong. Maybe try a diffuser next time so that you don't get so much reflection off the heads.


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ArcticEOS
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Jun 12, 2006 15:39 as a reply to  @ mavericksupersonic's post |  #3

mavericksupersonic wrote:
NBEast,

I am no pro, but when Take portraits, I prefer for the people to be right in the middle. Personally, i would like #2 with a little more showing on the right and a little less on the left.

Also, the flash in the first shots seems to be a little strong. Maybe try a diffuser next time so that you don't get so much reflection off the heads.

Middle shots are not always what you want. Try to create new styles and compositions. I like these shots. The only thing I can suggest is try patching the pimples out of the faces using the original shots at full crop. This will show them that you are a true artist. If you give me permission, I would be glad to show you.


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NBEast
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Jun 12, 2006 16:53 as a reply to  @ ArcticEOS's post |  #4

ArcticEOS wrote:
Middle shots are not always what you want. Try to create new styles and compositions. I like these shots. The only thing I can suggest is try patching the pimples out of the faces using the original shots at full crop. This will show them that you are a true artist. If you give me permission, I would be glad to show you.

Oops; forgot to include links to the originals.

Original of Photo 1 (external link)
Original of Photo 2 (external link)
Oops, just realizing this is not one of the best focus jobs. Happens when going from f4.0 IS to f1.4 non-IS. :oops:

Warning, each are about 4MB.

Happily allowed, always feel free to edit my stuff; However these were just samples. I took about 80 shots and I just grabbed these. Nearly all were very in-focus and most of those good poses so have some sort of potential. I'm pretty familiar with simple clone brush at 100% to remove pimples in Photoshop CS - my appologies for not making all edits prior to posting. I'de love to hear about your method though.

I was busily editing away and thought "hmmm, sure would be nice to know how best to crop these cause although mid-center is often nice, off center adds a great look sometimes too. I just lack the judgement of knowing when non-center looks better and surely someone could share some tricks and guidelines make it (off-center magic) work.

Also; do you recommend I blast them with 30 to choose from, or just pick the 10 very very best and make them think I was a miracle worker? Sometimes I don't feel qualified to pick the best and have nearly trashed a few of my best photos ever (in hindsite).

mavericksupersonic wrote:
Also, the flash in the first shots seems to be a little strong. Maybe try a diffuser next time so that you don't get so much reflection off the heads.

Thank you for the comments Maverick.

I think my diffuser is called a "Steno Cap". It's a white plastic cap about 2 inches high that just slips on the end of my 580EX.

However; it was pointed directly at them - I think angling it up 45 degrees might be better. Light was waning that evening as the sun had set about 20 minutes earlier. You have zeroed in on perhaps my biggest weakness technically, lighting.


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ootsk
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Jun 13, 2006 00:55 |  #5

In my opinion the first one does not have the basics of a good portrait. It's a nice snapshot, but there are flaws. Notice that they are facing one way, while tilting the other. I'll submit an example of where they should be according to the height of the heads and their tilt. The problem with this crop is the arms lead the viewer to look out of the picture. This is what makes the second picture so good...the elevation of the heads leads us INTO the picture, not out. His body is angled properly, although her arm is too bright (needs long sleeves) and is at an angle leading opposite to the "feel" of the composition. Imagine her with her back to him in the second photo, slightly shorter than him. That would allow you to leave just a little negative space to the left of the shot for a great effect.
Please for the future click on the "image editing allowed".
Here's what I've done with the first photo...as I've said, her arm is way wrong for this crop, but it's the best I think that can be done with it.


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NBEast
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Jun 13, 2006 02:05 as a reply to  @ ootsk's post |  #6

ootsk wrote:
In my opinion the first one does not have the basics of a good portrait. It's a nice snapshot, but there are flaws. Notice that they are facing one way, while tilting the other. I'll submit an example of where they should be according to the height of the heads and their tilt. The problem with this crop is the arms lead the viewer to look out of the picture. This is what makes the second picture so good...the elevation of the heads leads us INTO the picture, not out. His body is angled properly, although her arm is too bright (needs long sleeves) and is at an angle leading opposite to the "feel" of the composition. Imagine her with her back to him in the second photo, slightly shorter than him. That would allow you to leave just a little negative space to the left of the shot for a great effect.
Please for the future click on the "image editing allowed".
Here's what I've done with the first photo...as I've said, her arm is way wrong for this crop, but it's the best I think that can be done with it.

Thanks so much. This is exactly the sort of C&C I was hoping for. You're terriffic.

"Snapshot" is exactly what I was thinking as I was shooting this thing. "I don't really know how to do this".

This couple agreed to this free photoshoot to help me practice, in exchange for some pretty OK photos.

So you're saying on photo 1 is the tilt of the head and direction of body lead the viewer's eyes, as do long bright things (like bare arms). And I've gotten them tied up in a knot?

I was pretty lost and offered very little direction. My confusion made things a little awkward but the girl was very into it and her energy saved us from tense moments. This kind of instruction, even if I don't get it perfect at first, will really help the "session atmosphere. Thanks.

I tried cutting out the arm altogether. Then fixed the pimples and did some soft lighting effects to remove the flash shine and hide the background in more darkness. Perhaps a tiny bit of white space to her side would work.

I'm trying to duplicate the darkened background you did. That was a real saviour. How did you do it??? It's SOOOO much better than my attempt.

IMAGE: http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/75166262-S.jpg

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