Working with models... share your methods:

I have been spending some time looking at my own practice here. A theatre director friend of mine whom i recently worked with pointed out that i need to start coming into a shoot with more ideas. Be they good or bad, but a source of momentum for the shoot, so that when one direction flops, there is another thing to work towards.

What do you guys do to keep a shoot rolling?

Do you go into a shoot with a definate image in mind first?

Do you go in and see what will happen?

Do you work with the model as the shoot progresses?

I really feel this is my weakest point, getting the magic out of the model, getting that special something they need to porject in order to get teh image just perfect! Take a look at my folio and tell me if i am just being too hard onmyself:

www.blee-ree-eyed.com

I'm no expert but here are some of the things I do....

Pre-shoot:
I collect images from magazines or web that I like and arrange them into types such as...
-Women
--Closeup
--Sitting
--Standing
--Knealing
--Laying
--Unique prop
-Men
-Couples
-Groups
--Wedding

Before a shoot I take the ones I think I may use and print a contact sheet or put them into my viewer to show the model.

During a shoot.... I make a lot of jokes and I make them move and then stop to get a non-posed expression.

Ooh... good idea... i like the preperation phase...

anyone else got some kind of pre-game ritual theydo?

Me personally I usually have several concepts in mind before the shoot based on the model's looks. I also usually have a meticulous plan that gets thrown out the door as soon as the model shows up. Most importantly for a two hour shoot I usually have 4 hours worth of ideas I want to try. I end up only going with the best ideas.

After the shoot starts I basically go with the flow adjusting to the model's style as she adjusts to mine. This is one of the reasons I usually insist on a minimum of 2 hours, because the first hour will produce very few good shots (but they do happen).

One area there is a slight difference is if I am going for an advert shoot in which case I have a very specific look in mind and we focus on that until we get it. After that I will shoot some shots for the fun of it. I find the shot that is selected for the advert is usually one of the ones taken after we just started having fun. The model is still in the role, but the poses are less formal. At least it has worked for me so far.

And as to what do I do to keep it rolling. I have a wonderful book of 1001 poses which is not very good for anything but getting me over my mental block. I usually look through the book for about 60 seconds, declare it all crap and throw it over my shoulder and start shooting again; mental block gone. So far the book has taken several tosses with no damage - it is the most impressive thing about it. The content sure isn't very good.

When I was first starting out I also looked through magazines and web portfolios to see what I liked and didn't like and kept a scrap book of sorts. But these days I find I am using that method less and less for ideas.

Finally I don't understand what your last question is about. I work with every model through out the shoot and she works with me. I gather you meant something else by that question though so please clarify.

Longwatcher - thanks for the ideas (and reasurance that i am not the only one with mental blocks/idea frustration

As for the lest question, i just meant to ask wether you ended up working with the model in the sense that the two of you arrive at ideas together, or wether you try to retain control over the whole process.

Ahh I understand the question now.

The answer is depends on the model.

For most models yes we continue to exchange ideas as the shoot goes along.

But a significant portion of the inexperienced models I have worked with usually bring few if any ideas to the table, in those cases If I don't come up with the ideas they will just sit there. I have had several though that only had a few shoots under their belt so to speak that knew what they wanted from the shoot and I used their guidance to pose them better to get the look they wanted.

As to creative control. If they are paying me, they get to control the shoot up to the point where I think the picture will be crap. If it is TFCD it tends to be me in control because I have more experience, but try to keep it as a collaboration to the extent I can. If I am paying them, I will take input, but ultimately I am the one in control of the photo shoot up to any limits they have set for the session.

Just my experience,

Thanks for the feedback, that really helps diswade my conviction that i am a hamfisted moron!

In the end it's the photographer who control the process. You need to know your lights, posing, cameraworks and the model is there to give the right expression.

You HAVE to control everything. I usually go into a shoot with an idea of what final image I want. I know where the lights will be, the kind of backgroud I'm looking for and how the pose and elements of design should work to get the message across.

Most of the time I'm shooting for myself and the models are my friends. If they want a certain picture, they try and communicate that to me and I go through the same mental process to prepare for the shoot.

That's unless I'm shooting to just establish rapport with someone or to test a new piece of eqipment.

If you don't know where you're going, you'll get nowhere.

Doc I have to respectivly disagree,

The photographer only HAS to control HIS equipment (Camera, lights, post processing). It is optional to control the model. I find some of the best shots I get are when I give the model a box to work in (the box defined by the coverage of my lights/camera view) and let them move around and pose on thier own within the box.

As mentioned in an earlier post, the exception is an Advertisment or artistic shot with a SPECIFIC goal in mind, then yes the Photographer NEEDS to, but does not HAVE to control everything. But for simple model portfolio sessions, I find it actually better to give the model the ability to control themselves up to their skill level.

But that is my style. Control is not mandatory, but it is a style of shooting. Some models actually hate that style of the photographer controling everything, but a few don't like mine either, luckily I can switch fairly easily to the control everything mode if needed. That is why I always recommend new models try to find 6 different photographers when they are starting out, before they start charging. so they understand there are different styles of photographers out there.

Just my observations and opinion,

I understand what you're saying.

You're paying your models, so I think they'd be a little bit more experienced. The people I shoot usually freeze up for a bit and give me that "what do I do next?" look.

Also I'd probably shoot a "moving" model within a box, but my lights are not that dynamic. I would need something that recycles in at least 2-3 seconds and I don't have THAT yet.

For model portfolios it is either TFCD or they are paying me. 8)
I have to date only paid two models just for portfolio use, but it was well worth the money and about 4 and 5 years ago.
For model portfolios, some pose themselves and some need all the help they can get, But I always give them the chance to move themselves first before I take over when needed. After all my job is to first make them look good and second to try and capture their personality/style so others will know what they are getting. I can't capture their style if I am controlling the posing.

BTW: These days I only pay models when doing photo sets for sell or for the occasional advert shoot I do and yes those do tend to be more experienced models. My favorite to date has been Ashton Gray, a model out of Canada.

And I can recommend a good set of fairly low cost studio lights that recycle in less then a second on average (unless on full power) - I think you know the ones I am talking about
8) 8)

Just my experience and opinion,

Longwatcher wrote:
And I can recommend a good set of fairly low cost studio lights that recycle in less then a second on average (unless on full power) - I think you know the ones I am talking about

Vivitars, I'm sure

DocFrankenstein wrote:
Vivitars, I'm sure

Vivitar makes studio strobes?

Sorry,
Doc and I have an on going debate on the value of Alien Bees. I am of course a big fan.
But we both agree we would get Elinchroms if we could afford them, so we are just arguing the middle ground. It is more fun that way.

Photog87 - Actually you are fortunate to have Longwatcher and DocF engaging in one of their interesting discussions. Many of us just follow them around to see what will evolve next. Good solid info from 2 different views always produces some worthwhile content. I have an entire scrapbook of their more famous threads.

This is totally different than Photosguy and Myself, who meet over coffee and engage in table pounding and spurious remarks about most anything.

All my models are riders on horseback - and THAT is a whole different scenario.