Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
Thread started 10 Aug 2006 (Thursday) 20:57
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

2 questions on lenses for crop factor dSLRs

 
Poe
Goldmember
Avatar
1,956 posts
Likes: 15
Joined Oct 2005
Location: Modesto, CA
     
Aug 10, 2006 20:57 |  #1

The general rule of thumb for shutter speed is the reciprocal of the focal length. Crop factor dSLRs, specifically canon, have a 1.6 multiplier to the focal length of the lens. Does this mean i need to use the reciprocal of the multiplied focal length?

With canon's crop factor dSLRs, a normal lens is actually about 31mm. Taking the EF 28mm and Sigma 30mm as examples of approximate normal lenses, even though they give [approximately] the same field of view as a 50mm lens on 35mm sensor, won't the two lenses have the intrinsic perspective distortion of a 28mm or 30mm wide angle lens and will not be equivolent to the perspective distortion of a 50mm lens on a 35mm sensor?

I believe the answers to these questions are no and yes, but I'm double checking. Thanks for any clarifications.



Nikon D750, D7200 | Nikon-Nikkor 14-24G, 60G Micro, 70-300E | SIGMA 35A, 105 OS, 24-105 OS | ZEISS Distagon 2.0/25 Classic, Apo-Distagon 1.4/55 Otus, Apo-Planar 1.4/85 Otus, Makro-Planar 2/100 Classic, Apo-Sonnar 2/135 Classic

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dellboy
Senior Member
Avatar
343 posts
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Ipswich Suffolk U.K.
     
Aug 10, 2006 21:26 |  #2

The second question is indeed yes.
The first question is complicated issue and I'm sure we'll get a range of answers, depending on the resolution of peoples cameras and how sharp a particular tog requires their pics to be.
IMO the required shutter speed for max sharpness depends on the resolution of the sensor and not its size. ie the pixels per square inch. This means that a 20d has a higher resolution than even a 1Ds because the 1Ds has a sensor more than twice the size of a 20D.
It turns out, after some complicated math, that a 6mp 1.6X camera has a very simular resolution to the best films that are available and hence the normal reciprocal rule holds true (also true for a 1ds mk1 and a 5D ).
However for Cameras like the 1Ds mk2, XT, 20D, 30D ect the resolution is higher and hence the shutter speed needs to be faster. Also by coinsidence this turns out to be very close to the reciprocal of the multiplied focal length. Therefore this is now a good guide for these cameras.
When cameras of a higher resolution come out expect to need a higher shutter speed still.
Hope this helps some and doesn't kick up too much controversy, Dellboy.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tim
Light Bringer
Avatar
51,010 posts
Likes: 375
Joined Nov 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
     
Aug 11, 2006 00:06 |  #3

Given that it's just a rule of thumb you're better off doing your own experiments rather than relying on modifying the rule. There was a huge thread about this months back, and in the end we all agreed to disagree.


Professional wedding photographer, solution architect and general technical guy with multiple Amazon Web Services certifications.
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tee ­ Why
"Monkey's uncle"
Avatar
10,596 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Pasadena, CA
     
Aug 11, 2006 00:14 |  #4

I heard that the answer is yes and yes.


Gallery: http://tomyi.smugmug.c​om/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Poe
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
1,956 posts
Likes: 15
Joined Oct 2005
Location: Modesto, CA
     
Aug 11, 2006 04:47 as a reply to  @ tim's post |  #5

tim wrote:
Given that it's just a rule of thumb you're better off doing your own experiments rather than relying on modifying the rule. There was a huge thread about this months back, and in the end we all agreed to disagree.

How does one go about doing these experiments?



Nikon D750, D7200 | Nikon-Nikkor 14-24G, 60G Micro, 70-300E | SIGMA 35A, 105 OS, 24-105 OS | ZEISS Distagon 2.0/25 Classic, Apo-Distagon 1.4/55 Otus, Apo-Planar 1.4/85 Otus, Makro-Planar 2/100 Classic, Apo-Sonnar 2/135 Classic

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
SkipD
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
20,476 posts
Likes: 165
Joined Dec 2002
Location: Southeastern WI, USA
     
Aug 11, 2006 06:40 |  #6

Poe wrote:
With canon's crop factor dSLRs, a normal lens is actually about 31mm. Taking the EF 28mm and Sigma 30mm as examples of approximate normal lenses, even though they give [approximately] the same field of view as a 50mm lens on 35mm sensor, won't the two lenses have the intrinsic perspective distortion of a 28mm or 30mm wide angle lens and will not be equivolent to the perspective distortion of a 50mm lens on a 35mm sensor?

The answer to this question is absolutely NO. There is no such thing as "intrinsic perspective distortion" related to any focal length. Perspective is purely and simply a function of the distance between the viewer (or camera) and the subject. It's that simple. One chooses a focal length to give the field of view desired from a particular camera-to-subject distance.

If you put a 31mm lens on an APS-C camera such as a 20D and a 50mm lens on a 35mm film camera (or "full-frame" DSLR) and take a shot with each rig of the same subject from the same position, you will see absolutely no difference in the perspective in the two shots.

If you use any camera and take photos of a subject from the same position using a variety of focal lengths, you will see that ALL of the photos have the same perspective. The shots taken with shorter focal lengths merely have more of the subject in the image, and the ones taken with longer focal lengths merely have less of the image. The perspective - assuming all were taken from the same position (same distance between camera and subject) - will be identical.

As to your question about the rule-of-thumb for handholding, the answer is yes. To keep the rule-of-thumb consistent, you would need to use the "crop factor" in the calculation. However, a rule-of-thumb is just that. You may be able to get sharp hand-held photos using a slower speed than other folks. The real answer to your question depends on your skill level. It is worth experimenting (shooting at various shutter speeds and pixel-peeping) to determine what rule-of-thumb YOU should use. You would be looking for streaks in the details to see if you are not holding the camera steady.


Skip Douglas
A few cameras and over 50 years behind them .....
..... but still learning all the time.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Phil ­ V
Goldmember
1,977 posts
Likes: 75
Joined Jan 2005
Location: S Yorks UK
     
Aug 11, 2006 06:45 |  #7

Poe wrote:
With canon's crop factor dSLRs, a normal lens is actually about 31mm. Taking the EF 28mm and Sigma 30mm as examples of approximate normal lenses, even though they give [approximately] the same field of view as a 50mm lens on 35mm sensor, won't the two lenses have the intrinsic perspective distortion of a 28mm or 30mm wide angle lens and will not be equivolent to the perspective distortion of a 50mm lens on a 35mm sensor?

Perspective distortion is NOT intrinsic to a lens' focal length it's intrinsic to the subject distance. You can check this out using your eyes rather than a camera. Look at a face close up, see how the nose grows, or put a finger 10cm from your eye and compare the size of it to a background object - now hold it at arms length - observe the difference. Therefore the answer is YES (they have none).
However they will show the lenses optical distortion characteristics (as this is a function of lens design).


Gear List
website: South Yorkshire Wedding photographer in Doncaster (external link)
Twitter (external link)Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tim
Light Bringer
Avatar
51,010 posts
Likes: 375
Joined Nov 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
     
Aug 11, 2006 18:55 as a reply to  @ Poe's post |  #8

Poe wrote:
How does one go about doing these experiments?

Pick your favorite lens and focal distance - say 50mm. Take a photo at say 1/500th, 1/400th, 1/300th, 1/200th, 1/100th, 1/80th, 1/50th, 1/25th, 1/20th, 1/10th, 1/5th, etc. Make your own rule of thumb based on what you see in the results.


Professional wedding photographer, solution architect and general technical guy with multiple Amazon Web Services certifications.
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

4,496 views & 0 likes for this thread, 6 members have posted to it.
2 questions on lenses for crop factor dSLRs
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is ANebinger
1192 guests, 145 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.