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Thread started 21 Aug 2006 (Monday) 07:16
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SS or ISO

 
KIPAX
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Aug 21, 2006 07:16 |  #1

Photographing fooball (soccer) I am not getting sharp pictures in manual .. lets say I start with f2.8 (keep that) 1000ss and 100iso.

Light starts to fade so in order not to get noise i start to drop shutter speed.. at anything less than 800 i will start to up iso so if i get down to 640 then its 200iso and 400 iso as I get lower... I usual have a bottom line of 320ss and a top 1600iso

OK my question.. for sharper pics should I wait before upping iso or is ss more important and the diffeence between iso 100-400 negligable..

Yes I can test and see and after 7 matches in the last 7 days I dont seem to be winning.. Pictures look great at reasonable size and would print great a4 and I dont really need better myself.. but publications will want better . I ahve read the various fantastic tutorials on here... but i still have the question...

Should I be dropping ss first or upping iso first.. I am on the ball with combinations but not whats preferable..whats first? :)


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Croasdail
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Aug 21, 2006 07:36 |  #2

Gavin taught me.... at least what I understood him to tell me.... was to adjust ISO just as you would Shutter Speed or Aperature. I now lock in both of those and start moving ISO up as the sun goes down. It is only when I have hit either ISO 800, 1250 or 1600 depending on the camera that the shutter speed starts moving down. It has worked very well for me. I wish Canon had a mode where ISO was the variable. But I do have to keep some tricks in my pocket before the masses figure it out.

Hope I stated that right Gavin - correct me if I said it wrong. Cheers.




  
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gmen
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Aug 21, 2006 08:00 as a reply to  @ Croasdail's post |  #3

Croasdail wrote:
Gavin taught me.... at least what I understood him to tell me.... was to adjust ISO just as you would Shutter Speed or Aperature. I now lock in both of those and start moving ISO up as the sun goes down. It is only when I have hit either ISO 800, 1250 or 1600 depending on the camera that the shutter speed starts moving down. It has worked very well for me. I wish Canon had a mode where ISO was the variable. But I do have to keep some tricks in my pocket before the masses figure it out.

Hope I stated that right Gavin - correct me if I said it wrong. Cheers.

That sounds right Mark...

For football I like to shoot at or near wide open, with a shutter speed of 1/1000s or a little faster. Like you say, I start with the lowest ISO possible, gradually increasing the ISO as the light fades.

I only slow the shutter speed down once the ISO hits 1250 or 1600, reducing from 1/1000s down to 1/500s, before I move up to ISO3200. Then, once I hit 1/320s, I go to the bar for several beers.

If I do end up shooting at ISO3200, I will sometimes shoot RAW if I'm not on a tight deadline. This can give a slightly better result 'noise-wise' than a straight jpeg.

For me, a sharp (i.e. not blurred) image is more important than some noise. Also with a good noise reduction package and the correct noise profiles, even ISO3200 can produce some very nice images that will still be OK for (most) publication purposes.

KIPAX - I'm not sure what publications you're dealing with... so this may not be a definitive answer. However, in my experience most publications will prefer an image were the action is stopped rather than players that have become unrecognisable blurs.

The other consideration is sharpening. If you're shooting jpeg at high ISO and you've got the in-camera sharpening turned on, the resulting noise will be even more noticeable. Ideally set the sharpening to zero, do your noise reduction in PP and add your sharpening as a final step.

Also, you will find some togs that won't shoot above ISO1600. They will deliberately underexpose rather than go to ISO3200... This is a tough one. I've dabbled with this approach and I find that there is a decrease in dynamic range when salvaging the underexposed image at ISO1600 compared to shooting (without underexposing) at ISO3200. Also underexposing introduces more noise into the equation. Thus I prefer to get a better exposure at ISO3200 and play with a bit of noise reduction (if the publication so demands). I'm sure there will be differences in opinion on this one.

The good thing is that you should be blessed with some reasonable floodlighting this season, so you might not need to enter ISO3200 territory very often ;)

---- Gavin


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Little ­ Fish
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Aug 21, 2006 10:17 |  #4

I have nothing to add to this thread except thanks for such a detailed and easy to understand explanation. For those who really want to improve their photography, this forum is a fantastic source of information.

Frank.


Body: 1D Mark IV, 50D 20D Lenses: Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS, Canon 24-70 f2.8L, Canon 1.4 and 2x extenders, Canon f1.8 85mm, Sigma 50-500 F4-6.3 APO DG

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cecilc
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Aug 21, 2006 10:51 as a reply to  @ gmen's post |  #5

gmen wrote:
For me, a sharp (i.e. not blurred) image is more important than some noise.

Amen to that ....

Yes, you can get rid of - or, at least, minimize - the noise ... and, even if there still remains a little noise, that's OK ....

But you can't "un-blurry" a photo ....

Also agree with the sharpening advice - my cameras are set to "0" for in-camera sharpening ... particularly in low-light situations. But I've gotten to the point that I just leave it at "0" all the time now and just catch it in post.


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KIPAX
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Aug 21, 2006 11:14 as a reply to  @ gmen's post |  #6

gmen wrote:
For football I like to shoot at or near wide open, with a shutter speed of 1/1000s or a little faster. Like you say, I start with the lowest ISO possible, gradually increasing the ISO as the light fades.

I only slow the shutter speed down once the ISO hits 1250 or 1600, reducing from 1/1000s down to 1/500s, before I move up to ISO3200. Then, once I hit 1/320s, I go to the bar for several beers.

Thats the answer... I know how to combat the light but I did wonder if I was going the right way.. I was lowering speed and keeping iso .. I should up iso and lower speed last... thats what I was asking in my own haphazzard way thanks:)

Publications is local daily paper for the most part.. but I get at least 4 books a year with pics in (local authors plus accy stanley good subject in football) and the odd magazine and of course programmes every week.

We have very poor lighting.. I tend to always shoot raw at night matches and jpg during day.

Many thanks as always... Accy v forest tonight.. will try to keep 1000 and up iso as it gets dark :)

BTW I ma managing to stop the action.. its not a case of the scene blurred.. but the finer things such as badges cant be read... yeaterday aftrenoon I di Blackburn v Arsenal ladies game and what seemd pretty good conditions.. did the whole thing in manual as i tend to do now .. see here http://kipax.fotopic.n​et/c1058384.html (external link) something just not quite right.. but as I say.. will try other way tonight :)


In my tenth year as a Full time Sports Photographer.
living the dream at www.kipax.com (external link)

  
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