Foveon chip:- a dead-end?

I'm wondering why Foveon didn't take over the world as many expected it would?

Comparing the Canon & Sony roadmaps, Foveon should be on their 3rd gen chip by now. Did the R&D department just all down tools, or did they hit a physical/financial brick wall with this technology? I still think an 8mp x 3 Foveon could clean up.

... and did the much-delayed Polaroid compact ever actually hit the shops? I've never seen one in the UK.

I was very close to buying a Sigma DSLR because I had Sigma SLR before and very happy with it. The very high price at the time v's the 300D was all that turned me off. Some of the shots I saw taken with it were spectacular. I guess it's market penetration. Canon and Nikon/Sony sensors have it. The Faveon may or may not be better, in potential, but we all know that is sometimes irrelevant to market success. Unless Sigma release a new killer body at a crazy, crazy price I can't much future.

The problem with the Foveon becoming a hit was it was Sigma and not Canon, Nikon or Sony that developed it.
It may also not be dead, but only in limbo for a time.

The issues are
- it was put on a camera that was not compatable with a lot of people's lenses.
- There was not a lot of advertising compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony, Kodak, HP.
- a 4MP camera is still a 4MP camera even if you call it a 12MP camera. resolution is the key factor at this time. The fact that you record the three colors separately does not overcome the fact you only have one photo detector site per final pixel.
- It was fairly noisy from what I read although the color was better.

There is still a chance for that technology if one of two things happens (or has happened).
Either they license it to someone else or someone else figures out how to do it without infringing on the patent.
As sensors hit the physics limits for number of pixel sites, Foveon or something like it is the only way they will be able to make improvements.

And lastly maybe there was some other limitation to the technology we are not aware of.

The market killed it. Sigma was lagging by about 2 years behind canon and noink.

Had they been able to come up with a range of DSLRs starting from 6 to say... a pro 12mp foveons which undercut canon 1Ds in pricing.

Everyone (Canon, Nikon, Sony etc) seem to have resolved most of the issues surrounding standard sensors, such as rainbow around fine details etc, in the end I guess it offered no real advantage. They were always going to cost more to make as they were (are) more complex.

Were a good idea at the time though!

http://www.sigma-sd14.com/

With a new version of the Foveon. Seems they're not quite dead yet!

condyk wrote:
http://www.sigma-sd14.com/

With a new version of the Foveon.

Yes!

condyk wrote:
http://www.sigma-sd14.com/

With a new version of the Foveon.

Shoot! I'm playing catch up again! I was going to post this link, but condyk beat me to it.

So Sigma is announcing (or rather, announcing they're going to announce) next gen Foveon. Gonna be interesting.

Rad

Hmmm, the Foveon site still only lists two sensors, a 4.5MP and 10MP chip.

So what is really better? A 10MP Bayer sensor, or a 10MP Foveon, which really only has 3.3 pixels in the final image?

So how do you sleep if your bed is burning?

So do Sigma bodies preform better with their lens than a Canon coupled with a Sigma lens ...

Bluedog_XT wrote:
So do Sigma bodies preform better with their lens than a Canon coupled with a Sigma lens ...

The big issue is you can only get Sigma lenses, no one else makes a Sigma mount lens! As for compatibility, I would assume they are better, no I have this 5 year old lens that doesn't work on my new DSLR body.

Who knows? You have no idea what is coming so why not wait before throwing out what is an uninformed opinion We'll find out some facts at the end of September. Some respected people will review it. Then we start to get a sense of its value in the marketplace. As for now ... just hot air

Meanwhile, I'm sure all the Canon fanboys will be preparing their arguments against, same as with the Sony A100 and D200. Sad really I'll keep an open mind. I'm really happy with my 30D but if the sd14 potentially adds significant value to my shooting I'll jump. If not then I won't. Anyway, I'll always trust my own eyes before anything I read on a forum and the previous Sigma's have produced some of the best best shots I've seen, so I am reasonably hopeful.

A new Leica digital is coming too Hmmm, I'd prefer less facilities in exchange for an image quality jump.

condyk wrote:
Who knows? You have no idea what is coming so why not wait before throwing out what is an uninformed opinion We'll find out some facts at the end of September. Some respected people will review it. Then we start to get a sense of its value in the marketplace. As for now ... just hot air

Meanwhile, I'm sure all the Canon fanboys will be preparing their arguments against, same as with the Sony A100 and D200. Sad really I'll keep an open mind. I'm really happy with my 30D but if the sd14 potentially adds significant value to my shooting I'll jump. If not then I won't. Anyway, I'll always trust my own eyes before anything I read on a forum and the previous Sigma's have produced some of the best best shots I've seen, so I am reasonably hopeful.

A new Leica digital is coming too Hmmm, I'd prefer less facilities in exchange for an image quality jump.

At the end of the day, brand loyalties aside the Foveon chip is a great idea, it is just a shame that only Sigma utlises it. I guess there is no way Canon will ever use it, they make their own sensors, why would they give their money to someone else to make them?

Hmmm new Leica. I still think someone should do digital conversions for old film cameras, a bit like a Hubbard Conversion in Back to the Future I would get an old Oly OM1 converted!

I don't think that matters because it is really about market penetration; to achieve that the new Sigma needs to add very significant value in terms of IQ/facilities to price v's the competition. If it does that then customers will buy it in significant numbers, same as they will the Sony A100.

If it's premium priced like the SD10 then forget it. By the time people want to spend big $/£'s they already have the lenses and accessories most of the time so will stick to the same brand. Sigma has all the lenses most people really need so that isn't an issue when upgrading; in fact, I still have a nice 400mm prime from my SA5 film days.

I have been thinking about why Sigma hasn't extended the OS it has in the 80-400mm. it's not like it sucks or anything and a Bigma OS would be a genuine 100-400mm IS L kliller in my view. Maybe the new SD14 will have body OS? That kind of facility at a 30D price point, backed up by the Sigma mount, would be very attractive to me.