Argh, this is HARD!

cfcRebel wrote:
As a newbie, I don't think it is a good move to go straight to manual (M) mode. IMHO, start with either Av or Tv mode. Once you feel more comfortable controlling the aperture, shutter speed, ISO, Exposure Compensation, then you know what you are doing when shooting in M mode. Just my $0.02.

i just found that i get the pictures i want in m mode.. i've foooled around with longer exposures... and all the opening sizes.. and i feel my shots are fine. i guess if i was to actually LEARN all about apeture i'd mess around with av mode... but i feel comfy in m. donning flame suit agian!

I didn't have a choice. When I started learning photography, there weren't a lot of automatic cameras around.

First of all, you're doing the right thing by taking a class. Secondly, as class progresses you'll find that your understanding of photography will improve and the concepts of exposure will become clearer and your photos should become better.

You probably need to go back to your camera's manual and read it over a couple of more times, paying special attention on how to meter exposure while in manual mode.

When your professor said no more automatic, he probably mean no more green box mode. He wants you to learn the effects of shutter speed and aperture choices on the photo. It's unlikely he meant manual focus on your camera, as it isn't well designed for that, especially in low light.

Mark

wow!! uh oh.. have to disagree here.. DSLR's are built with the intention of having to postprocess no different than film photographers entering a darkroom.. Maybe concentrating on understanding the settings and how they interact to get the results that you want and then improving the already good shots with post processing... maybe take babysteps work in AV mode for awhile and then TV once you understand those Manual mode is a bit easier to understand.. Just realize everything takes time.. There's a lot more to photography than pressing the shutter.

sari

Good decision to get into a course. Itys important to get out of the 'auto' mode with a DSLR. Try the Av and Tv settings first before venturing into M.

You will probably need a month or so to get comfortable. Hope your course material is comprehensive enough or there are lots of simple book recommendations in the stickies.

I am going to go aginst you a wee bit there. I believe that you as a photograher should get the image right first before using a darkroom or a computer fix any problem. Your right in the fact that SLR requires you to edit your photos to get the best, e.g. sharpening.

However I had come from reading a post about how not to over expose the sky. a couple of people had posted an edited photographs which included a fake sky. Which not only looks like crap, but with the right understanding of what's happening it's possible to get a photograph right without using photoshop to fix the problem.

in your case Noelle8818 I would recommend that you install all the software that came with your camera. This will give you a tool where you can edit the photo. Don't use Microsoft Picture. However I think the biggest thing you can do is understand what the camera does. By using TV and/or AV you can adjust a setting and then see what happens. Cause and effect. People have been learning this way for years. It just takes time as sari said.

I will say that your idea for the above photograph is on the right track.

cause it's all digital, keep trying

Nope. That's the way to learn.

Good for you. Understanding of exposure comes a long way.

nzl-g3user wrote:
I am going to go aginst you a wee bit there. I believe that you as a photograher should get the image right first before using a darkroom or a computer fix any problem. Your right in the fact that SLR requires you to edit your photos to get the best, e.g. sharpening.

However I had come from reading a post about how not to over expose the sky. a couple of people had posted an edited photographs which included a fake sky. Which not only looks like crap, but with the right understanding of what's happening it's possible to get a photograph right without using photoshop to fix the problem.

in your case Noelle8818 I would recommend that you install all the software that came with your camera. This will give you a tool where you can edit the photo. Don't use Microsoft Picture. However I think the biggest thing you can do is understand what the camera does. By using TV and/or AV you can adjust a setting and then see what happens. Cause and effect. People have been learning this way for years. It just takes time as sari said.

I will say that your idea for the above photograph is on the right track.

cause it's all digital, keep trying

If you read my above post I said that you can improve upon a good composition.. not that she should learn to cut and paste her compositions so it doesn't even remotely resemble her original composition.. but you make postprocessing sound like an a sometimes necessary afterthought of a photographer.. and the processing (not editing) that you do after you've taken the photo is a completely normal, necessary process in photography.. She won't be happy with her shots if she thinks that the sharpening and saturation should happen in camera and look as good (or better) than a point and shoot camera and it just won't happen. Yes, the photo should be technically correct and composed well in the first place.. But, processing and photography goes hand in hand.. you can't learn one and ignore the other. If she thinks she's aggravated and annoyed now wait until she shoots RAW in full manual mode and doesn't think she has to process anything...

sari

Noelle, your problem is not 'auto' vs. 'manual' per se. You would get the identical results with both settings, for example, if you merely do not yet understand the elements of correct metering of the scene! A bright beach scene has to be 'compensated' in the metering...either by a 'smart' Evaluative program in the camera, or by a smart photographer!

Having the camera choose the f/stop and shutter speed is NO different than you choosing the same combination, except that in manual choice YOU decide to accentuate depth of field (or not) or YOU decide to accentuate motion (or not) in the photo, rather than leaving the choice totally up to the camera.

we also have a relatively new Rebel and only started using the av, tv and m in the last two weeks. All I can say is that i use all types of settings and then evaluate them later. I take LOTS of pics of the same subject or object. Remember we do not have to pay for development and printing,so keep practicing and enjoy!!

Don't even worry about it Noelle, it took me about a week to learn full manual and what to look for, but it didn't end there. I found by studying the histogram to be the learning curve. Aside from out of focus, that didn't bother as much as having underexposed or overexposed images. I just think of it as, if I sit out in the sun too long I will get burned, so the longer my shutter is open the more I will get burned. So here are my steps to learning. First I need to decide what mode will suit what I am shooting, camera is manual mode.

1) What is the subject matter?

if still life -> a) set my AF to One Shot
b) What kind of depth of focus? Set aperture accordingly

if moving subject -> a) set my AF to AI Servo
b) what kind of motion am I after? Set shutter speed accordingly

Those are my first 2 decisions.

With either decision I set the appropriate shutter speed or aperture to compensate for my subject matter decision as I'm looking through the viewfinder. If I have loads of time I will take a shot exactly at 0 compensation for exposure. Then I view the image with the histogram. If the image is set far off to the right of the histogram and actually clipped, so now I'm starting to over expose, again I go back that I have been in the sun too long so I need to reduce the amount of time of sunlight entering the camera. In this case I would either have to increase my shutter speed or close the aperture.

This is most likely a real amateur way to explain it but this is what has been working for me, I now only go by the histogram if I have succesfully set my shutter speed and aperture to the desired need. Remember as well that you still need to keep in your head the desired outcome, DOF, any motion details etc..but I think this will help you. There are other details such as ISO, etc..but lets just assume you are using ISO 100 and outside for my example.

I hope I have made a little bit of sense and if I have given some incorrect info please correct me as to not create more confusion. I also read Practical Photography and Digital Camera both UK mags and that has helped quite a bit. As well if your up too it shoot in RAW, you will then have more flexibility with your images then you could as jpeg.

Good luck, and I truly believe this, even pros delete pictures.

I will add to Shasta's post an important fact: there is a counterbalance interaction between f/stop and shutter speed to achieve the correct exposure. So if you increase f/stop (larger size opening of diaphram, more light hitting the sensor), you would need to use a faster shutter speed (less light hitting the sensor) to counterbalance the aperture. So if you want more DOF and yet be able to freeze motion, you just might NOT be able to achieve that combination! For example, if the meter says 1/400 @ f/8 for correct exposure, and if you wanted really deep DOF you would need to use 1/100 @ f/16 shutter speed instead. But if you were trying to freeze a race horse in motion, you might need 1/800, yet by setting that you lose your deep DOF because you need to set the lens to f/8. So you would have to decide which to give up...perhaps a little bit of DOF and a little bit of speed stopping, and settle on 1/400 @ f/11 as the proper compromise which also still gives you the same overall exposure.

Thanks everyone for your input! I am really learning a lot!

Let me chime in! this is fun!
I don't believe that post processing and photography goes hand in hand. you can always, always, always, always, always have good pictures without post processing. I have seen very, very good pictures taken with slr's and p&s in the 70's before computers where even invented. These pictures were taken by ordinary people and are not professionals.
in a way, one should be able to take good pictures REGARDLESS of their camera. if one relies too much on post processing, then one cannot take good pictures.

However, i will make an extreme exception to professional photographers. They have to post process their work because they get paid for it. They have paying clients and they have bills to pay.

i'd like to ask the ppl in this forum, how many owned a film slr for years before getting their dslr? ppl, with due respect, who believes post processing and photography come hand in hand i think began in photography with dslr. i may be wrong on this one.

i read in one thread, most of your time should be spent taking nice pictures not sitting for hours in front of your computer fixing pictures with photoshop that should have been well composed.

i mean, it's a digital camera, why can't you take the picture 30 times to improve your composition and clarity? It's takes less time than sitting for hours tinkering with photoshop.

Ahem. With that said... I love photoshop and use it regularly to crop and sharpen. However, I try to spend extra time and even extra CF card space to improve my composition and sharpness.

Digital cameras often have color casts that must be corrected in post processing. No matter how good a photog you may be, unless you are using custom white balance in a studio situation you are going to need to do some correction at times.

Canon DSLR's by design need some sharpening in post processing due to their strong AA filter. Canon P&S cameras are designed for sharp images direct from the camera, consumer DSLR's have slightly less aggressive in-camera sharpening and the higher end bodies have the least aggressive in-camera sharpening. Yes, you can bump in-camera sharpening to max on most Canon DSLR's and get an acceptable image, but you get a better result by sharpening in PP.

I've had a home darkroom for 38 years, and would have had pretty bad results without the help of polycontrast filters, performing test prints or exposure metering, dodging, burning, cropping, etc. Even USM is taken from film photography. Also, most that have never done darkroom work don't understand that when they sent their film to a photolab all of their exposure "sins" were auto-corrected. If they asked the lab to expose all of the images to paper exactly the same for the entire roll the results would be pretty disappointing for most.

I do agree with the comments you make regarding getting exposure and composition right as you take the image however. I have a feeling a lot of DSLR users jam away at the shutter release hoping to get one good image instead of taking time to think about the scene and settings for proper exposure before going for the shot. Fewer but better shots also extends the life of your camera

If you want to take a middle step transition, you could go with AV = aperture priority or TV = shutter priority.

It's one half of what goes into manual and can help you understand those two important concepts.