New Alien Bees setup and project help needed

I'm taking over duties as my martial arts studio's "official" photographer, and I need some advice. The shot below was done by a pro, and is typical of the photos of our new black belts we hang on the wall of the studio (that's my 'baby' in this shot. they grow up fast!).

I just bought an Alien Bees setup which should arrive today, and I have a Digital RebelXT with the 17-85 IS/USM lens, although I also have the 50mm f/1.4 lens which may be better for this project.

The AB light package I bought includes:

2X 1600 lights
2X spill kill reflectors (for use with umbrellas)
1X 60-inch white/silver reversible umbrella
1X 48-inch white/silver reversible umbrella
1X 60-inch shoot-through translucent umbrella
2X 13-foot heavy duty stands

Here's what I'm looking for. The black belts pose in various still positions. I think the shadow side of this one may be a little darker than I'd prefer. I need a setup I can set and leave while doing shots for a dozen or more people, so I don't want to do much fiddling. Production and 'dummy proof' is the key. I've never used studio lights before.

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Few thoughts:
- Lens choice is irrelevant, at F8 most lenses are good enough.
- I'm not a studio photographer, but my take is you need 1-2 lights to light that background, and one diffused light to light the main subject.
- Use the cord that comes with the AlienBees. Yes you can use the 580EX on manual to trigger, less than 1/4 should be ok, 1/64th often works fine indoors.
- ISO 100 F8 1/125th is a good starting point, from there adjust according to your histogram. Don't change the shutter speed, and 'd be suprised if you need ISO 400 or even ISO200. You don't even need all that power, you have power to burn.
- Laptop tethered is ok but is kinda slow and limits you. For this it might work ok.

Hope that helps I'd not want to piss of a 6th dan either, but by that stage they're pretty calm guys most of the time

I'm with Tim on most of that. I'm not sure you have to worry too much about that background with the power you have on your hands and what you are trying to do.

No matter what advice you get here, the best thing you can do for yourself is set it up in your living room and practice, practice, practice.

The spill kill reflectors were unnecesary. The lights you bought come with 7" reflectors which server that purpose nicely.

Keep the subject about 4-6' from the background.

I think you'll have to adjust the Key light height by subject. 7' on a short subject might cast some weird shadows, but again, practice, practice, practice.

I've found that while the advice here can be pretty good, it doesn't trump DOING.

Good luck. I do similar work with gymnastics and I will be shooting with ONE AB800 and a reflector. More than enough for me. By the way I will be using the sync cord and no on camera flash.

Brice

Thanks guys! I appreciate the advice, and I will set these up at least once in my home to make sure it all goes together. First time in the dojang environment will be an experiment, but I'll know how it all goes together.

Follow up questions

You both mentioned the PC cord. . .I can't use it. The DRxt has no socket for that, and I didn't get the hot shoe PC cord thingy. I can get one, but it does sound like if the camera is on Manual and the 580EX is on manual, and the shutter is on 1/125, I can fire the 580EX straight up at low power and trigger the bees. Unless I misread you, Tim. I may get the hotshoe adapter sometime, but I want to know I won't have any "pre-flash" issues with this 580EX setup.

I knew I didn't "need" the spill kills, but I thought they would help me take advantage of the full size of the 60-inch umbrellas. Wouldn't I have to push the bigger umbrella out pretty far from the flash head for the standard reflector to really fill them? Are the spill kills useless? Good news is they were cheap. What are they useful for?

I was hoping I wouldn't need a background flash, but if I need one, and I get the hot shoe adapter, I can stick the 580EX in a slave trigger shoe and use it in Manual for that purpose, yes?

I very much appreciate the helpful suggestions. I will play with these over the holiday weekend some. Oh, the only reason for the laptop idea is that at 50, that tiny screen on the back of the DRxt is tough for me to evaluate. Maybe if I get the exposure and the light setup all set, I can skip the laptop, knowing I've got a good result worked out. All the laptop would be doing for me is making it easier for me to see if I got a good shot or not.

John

P.S. Oh, don't folks recommend a particular modeling bulb for the bees they prefer to the standard one? And, Tim, my master is pretty mellow. It's just that approaching bb myself (test in two weeks) I don't want to look like a knucklehead. I want to look like I know what I'm doing.

I don't know much but could maybe answer this question. The PC cord would be the best bet so order that hot shoe adapter. Would be a shame to spend all that money on the AB stuff and it not work all the time. After all you are relying on the 580 to fire in order to set off the strobes. Or order some pocket wizard type stuff for wireless.

You won't have any pre-flash issues because the flash will be in manual, not ETTL.

John,

You need to go the Fred Miranda site, go to the "Lighting and Studio" forum, then go to the thread "Show us Your studio." That thread has been active since October 04 and contains a veritable cornucopia of useful information on lighting and studio setups. Moreover, many of the pros on that forum are very helpful with their suggestions. The link is here:

http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/14418​1

Ted

Thanks for the link. I'll get hot shoe adapter, but without the pre-flash, I'm sure the 580EX will work in the meantime. I'm pretty sure I've heard of other folks using it that way.

You guys are great! Thanks for the help. Can't wait to play.

John

OH BOY! They're here!

Unpacked one and it responds fine to the 580EX. I can let the PC cord go for a while. For once, I'm not upset it will rain this weekend. I'll have lots of time to photograph the family. Or the dog if the family is not so inclined.

I love new toys!

John

Yep like you've found the ABs will slave to a low power 580 easily. Unfortunately it does't work around the other way. You can get a hotshoe to PC cord adaptor for liek $10 from B&H, I can't recommend any one in particular. Have fun!

Yahoo! What fun! I haven't done studio portraits since I was in college--um. . .a LONG time ago.

Nothing fancy here, I just wanted to unpack the units, get the stands and umbrellas up and see how it all goes together, so no great shakes on the photo here.

My son was sitting in a corner chair, so I had one light along one wall and the other along the second wall, with the camera in the middle--two 45-degree angles. The one on Kevin's right (photo left), was the "main" with a 60-inch reversible umbrella silver side, and the one on Kevin's left (photo right) was a 48-inch reversible umbrella, white side. Lights were the 1600's with the spill kill reflectors, main at 1/2 power, fill at 1/4 power, ISO 100, shutter 1/125, f/11, shot in JPG.

In photoshop elements, I cropped, did lighten shadows/darken highlights 10/5, and sharpened. Don't critique the lighting for professional portraiture, I just wanted to see if I could get the setup to fire and get close on the exposure. I am delighted on both counts. Works fine with the 580EX at 1/16 power in a family room with two story ceiling, no PC cord required. I think I actually prefer this to fiddling with the cord, I may not bother with the cord unless I figure out how to use the 580EX as a slave (if I can, not sure) and want to use it elsewhere. Triggering the strobes with the camera flash is very convenient.

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Sounds like you're happy with them! Two lights at 45 degrees to the camera, equal power, is a great way to eliminate shadows - but shadows are one part of what good lighting is about. Just a thought I know this was a technical test

Looks like you've got it solved. You certainly have enough power IMO. Any you are right, you can always crank it down but you can not crank it up past max.

My experience with the PC cord on the ABs is that it is the one item most likely to fail. Stupid wires! I always have my 550EX in the bag to revert to what has become my preferred method of firing the strobes.

BTW - the second is on optical slave anyway, isn't it?

Yes, Dave, I thought the same thing myself. I'm not sure why folks are always worrying about the hotshoe PC thingy. If you will be moving the lights or the camera at all, not having the extra wire is a big plus, IMO. Why the wire for one and the slave sensor for the other?? I played with these for quite a while last night, and I had to crank the 580EX way down in the two-story room for the bees not to fire.

Tim, You're right, of course. This was strictly a function check. I did no playing with the light power ratios at all, it was about 10PM and I wanted to take the stuff down before the spousal unit came home. I've got a nice portrait book by Bill Hurter, and I'm so happy, I think I'll get a couple of flash trigger shoes for the old Vivitar I have and the 580EX for use as kickers for the hair or background lights.

JPC

1. Basic concept: (assuming lights of equal intensity...) Treat distances like f/stops. If you put one light at 5.6 feet from subject, when you put the second light at 8 feet from subject the intensity at the subject is -1 EV, providing 2:1 lighting intensity ratio, a good start for modelling effect (4:1 lighting intensity is 'contrasty')

2. (note: 2:1 'lighting intensity' can result in either 2:1 or in 3:1 'lighting ratios' depending upon how they fall on the subject as seen from the lens...a source of much confusion for most!

3. If your subject is 8' from the light source and there is no separate 'background light', the background would need to be at 11' from the light source in order for it to be - 1 EV in light level from the subject. Of course, if your lights are set at 45 degrees to the camera, the camera-to-background distances needs to be GREATER than 11' to accomplish this, since we are talking about geomtric relationships!

4. Do not make the mistake of standing the subject too close to the background for two reasons: 1) Too close and you lose the benefit of using inverse square falloff to provide the tonal separation between subject and background, and 2) the shadows fall onto the background --and not onto the floor-- when the subject and background are too close to each other.

5. If you use different light modifiers on each light, Item 1 becomes problematic to use this rule of thumb (because the lights are NOT equal in intensity to begin with!). So you would need to use a light meter to set the light positions with more precision than simply eyeballing it.

6. Evaluate the result with your EYES, don't merely follow the numbers like a robot.

Rather than a PC adaptor, you might consider one of the inexpensive radio triggers sold on that famous auction site that this board apparently blocks the name of. At least I couldn't post this when I had that name in it. The triggers and receivers are really cheap compared to "good" ones. I have one and it performs flawlessly. I just entered "radio flash trigger" in the search function and it popped up more than you could ever use at ridiculously low "buy it now" prices – even less than I paid.