Wierd results for birds in flight advice sought

Well today I at last got to venture out and try my new body and lens combinations with it has to be said disapointing results

setup one was as follows
5D with 300mmf4ISL + 1.4tc so giving me a 420mm lens with IS SS was set to 400
setup two was as follows
30D with 400mm5.6L no IS SS was set to 1000

Now the results are hardly proof of anything but did leave me under whelend haveing had far better results with a 350d and a 100-400

the main problem seemend to be with the 400 5.6 the shots all seemend either OOF or to slow a shutter speed im thinking more along the lines of SS but shouldnt 1000/s be enough? or have i become far to used to the IS allowing me a slower SS?
the shots with the 5D 300f4IS+1.4TC combo where deff in focus but seemend to be under sharp for what i expected (sharper than a 100-400)

can anyone out there with experiance of these lenses and or these lenses on these bodys offer any helpfull thoughts and guidance before my next outing which is in the hands of the dismal weather

Now it could be new lenses and new bodys and just lots more time spent with them is required but my gut tells me its not it tells me im doing somthing wrong with these lenses or expecting to much from them?

Can you post some examples? I've the 30D and 400 5.6.

I could but have to say they are dire! im embarrased to do so but will go sort one out now

right out the camera 100%crop this is one of the better ones
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …ages/crapkiteIM​G_1970.jpg

I feel you pain, birds in flight are not easy, there is a learning curve for sure. I found that using AI Servo and all the focus points while panning helps out. Shot wide open and keep the shutter fast, over 1/500. The 400 F/5.6L is my lens of choice for birds in flight. My best advice is to keep at, maybe find some ducks or gulls and practice, practice, practice.

yeah i dont normally do to badly with my 100-400 350d combo but these were dire IMO Ive found with the all focus points selected it limits my shots when the birds dart in front of trees and things so try to avoid using that and stick to centre AF but ill give it a go thanks

varanus, I also have a 400mm f5.6 and without sounding too patronising, I hope, it took me a fair while to get used to it. I struggled so much that I ended up raising the ISO to 400 and even 800 to get very fast shutter speeds and then, as I got used to the lens, I was able to bring the ISO back down again.
Although, IMO, it is a fantastic lens it does need decent light to really shine. Excuse the pun ! But in the UK, especially at the moment, decent light may be hard to come by. So up goes the ISO again !!

snappa wrote in post #2068216
varanus, I also have a 400mm f5.6 and without sounding too patronising, I hope, it took me a fair while to get used to it. I struggled so much that I ended up raising the ISO to 400 and even 800 to get very fast shutter speeds and then, as I got used to the lens, I was able to bring the ISO back down again.
Although, IMO, it is a fantastic lens it does need decent light to really shine. Excuse the pun ! But in the UK, especially at the moment, decent light may be hard to come by. So up goes the ISO again !!

all very good points I was using shutter priority to maintain 1000/s thinking this would be enough the other long lens im used to using being the 100-400 and this only needing 400/500s i thought that double would be enough in your experiance is this the right sort of SS or am i shooting it to low? these SS were easily maintanined today with ISO 200 could have gone way up wiht the ISO but didnt see the need at the time if thats what it needs its not a problem just trying to figure out my error before the next trip out to give me somthing to do while it rains some more

went out again today better results but think the light is one of the main problems now probobly a bad time of year to be doing this

this was one from yesterday
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …ages/crapkiteIM​G_1970.jpg
few from today which i stuck to the same camera the 30d as this was mainly bought for the BIF shots due the the faster FPS and the extra focal length the crop gives
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …rge%20images/IM​G_2228.JPG
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …rge%20images/IM​G_2561.JPG
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …rge%20images/IM​G_2532.JPG
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …rge%20images/IM​G_2765.JPG
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …rge%20images/IM​G_2545.JPG
those all with the 30D 300f4ISL+1.4TC
these couple taken with 30D + 400 5.6L
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …rge%20images/IM​G_3208.JPG
http://www.natureseyep​hotography.co.uk …rge%20images/IM​G_3210.JPG

All being right out the camera full size

I have to take exception to Caliocats advice about using all focus points ( no offense). Sure it works if you are shooting a bird in the sky w/o any distracting objects. But most good in flight shots require you to pan and shoot with trees, brush, docks, mountains etc. in the field of view. Learning to use the center focus point sharpens your panning skills and aids in composition as well as focusing only on your subject. Selecting 4/1 in custom functions helps also.

ive yet to even look at the custom functions ill have a play thanks

They're looking great, Varanus - whatever was going wrong earlier seems not to be an issue now.

A couple of suggestions that I would make with both of these combinations for birds in flight:

1) Do not set the shutter speed via TV mode. Rather use Av mode and set the aperture wide open. This will assure the fastest possible shutter speed for the ISO you have chosen, and both of these lenses are very sharp wide open. You will also get better background blur. I know that this seems counter-intuitive at first, but I have gone over this in another thread recently ( https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=218551 ). This is what is advocated by all of the bird photographers I know, Pro and otherwise.

I will use Manual metering mode more often if the lighting conditions are constant. Even in those cases, unless I specifically need a lot of DOF, I will set the aperture wide open to get the fastest shutter speed I can. Remember that 400mm on a 1.6 multiplier sensor is like 640mm. If you are trying to take a still shot 1/1000th might be enough. If you are trying to follow a bird in flight, faster is always better!

2) On a personal note, with the 20D, I will only use all focus points for in-flight shots if they are being taken against a cloudless sky or a completely featureless overcast. Otherwise it's too easy for the focus to shift off of the bird. In the other cases I will use center-point only.

= Ed =

well your shots now are what i would exspect from the the 300f4isL+ 1.4tc and the 400f5.6 L i have these lense's and used them on a 20d .
on a good day when everything goes your way they both can give a bit more than your samples so it's well worth keeping at it.
Rob.

gyrob wrote in post #2076215
well your shots now are what i would exspect from the the 300f4isL+ 1.4tc and the 400f5.6 L i have these lense's and used them on a 20d .
on a good day when everything goes your way they both can give a bit more than your samples so it's well worth keeping at it.
Rob.

disapointing for me these are no better than a 100-400 is giving me allready i expected better from primes maybe it will have to be a 500f4 after all