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Thread started 19 Oct 2006 (Thursday) 16:26
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airshow guys - prop freeze?

 
barP
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Oct 19, 2006 16:26 |  #1

hey guys, i'm going to an airshow this weekend and could use some advice. what's the fastest typical shutter speeds you use before spinning propeller blades start to look goofy?

thanks!

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CarsRFun
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Oct 19, 2006 16:31 |  #2

are you trying to freeze them or get them in motion? you typically want some blur so it looks like the plane is actually moving


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Biko
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Oct 19, 2006 16:32 |  #3

I don't go above 1/400, and my ideal is 1/250 or less, that is when I am shooting with the 100-400 at 400 and also depending on speed of aircraft.

This is where IS helps.




  
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DonL
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Oct 19, 2006 17:15 |  #4

I was at Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome last weekend and shot mostly at 1/320th of a second. This gives only the slightest amount of prop blur. I agree with Biko that you probably want to use 250 or less. By the way, Biko do you handhold or use a tripod with the 100-400 lens. Thats what I was handholding the other day and it gets heavy after awhile.




  
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Daniel_B
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Oct 19, 2006 17:31 |  #5

250th is a good speed, but you can get away with 320th if you want to be on the safe side. Anything above this and you'll start to freeze the props and that doesn't look good. You could always go lower if you're confident with your panning of course!

How much blur you'll get depends on the aircraft as much as the shutter though - number of blades, RPM etc.

Here's one I took at 125th...

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


This one was at 1/30th, and there's less blur than above because of the engine power setting/RPM...

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


And as a rough guide, this one was taken at 320th...

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE



  
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PhotosGuy
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Post edited over 3 years ago by PhotosGuy.
     
Oct 19, 2006 19:19 |  #6

Posted by adamsti: General rule of thumb for props, 1/250 and slower for flying aircraft. 1/200 and 1/160 give very nice blur. For aircraft taxing 1/125 and slower. 1/60 is very good here.

Obviously here you need a steady hand, but it can be done with practice, like going out the week before & shooting some cars in moving traffic.
1/160 with a 400mm telephoto is NOT easy, especially if your lens doesn't have IS. I'd suggest that you try a faster shutter speed on the first pass & then slow down on each succeeding pass. I throw a lot of shots away, & my respect for Jay's skill & talent only grows every time I shoot an airshow.
(More on Av & Tv settings near the bottom of the first post in the "Exposure Crutch" link at the bottom of this post.)

And remember that a take off with full power will be easier to get a nice blur than when they're cruising. Here's my best full disc (lucky) result at 1/60 sec. F4U-5 Corsair
Be sure to read post #2!

Shooting Props?

Helicopter Prop Blur

Shooting airshows in Manual

Posted by peacock: " I always try to shoot the prop plane @ less than 1/125..."
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=209768

Your Best 3 Aviaton Shots

Panning Question

UNLESS YOU WANT TO FEEL REALLY BAD, DON'T LOOK AT THESE! :D

P-51's, it's all about the prop blur!!

Your Best 3 Aviaton Shots

Jets and Warbirds - So simple a child could do it!

https://photography-on-the.net …php?p=3983741#p​ost3983741

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=376793

You're going to find that the sky affects your exposure & some people like EC, exposure compensation.
Post #47

So try manual in those tough conditions. For a good starting point, first set the f-stop & shutter speed you need. Then adjust the ISO.
Need an exposure crutch?
There's more on Av & Tv settings near the bottom of the first post.


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Dean ­ Humphrey
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Oct 19, 2006 20:09 as a reply to  @ PhotosGuy's post |  #7

Good question and great advise, I'm stealing this info fro myself.;)


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TXClark
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Oct 19, 2006 20:46 |  #8

is a mono pod a good item to have with an 100-400L at the air shows?


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PhotosGuy
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Oct 19, 2006 21:26 |  #9

is a mono pod a good item to have with an 100-400L at the air shows?

You won't need it.


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RCoulter
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Oct 20, 2006 01:00 |  #10

TXClark wrote in post #2143651 (external link)
is a mono pod a good item to have with an 100-400L at the air shows?

I dont think so IMO, especially with the acts that go up and down, it would just get in the way. :)


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Biko
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Oct 20, 2006 02:16 |  #11

DonL wrote in post #2142693 (external link)
I agree with Biko that you probably want to use 250 or less. By the way, Biko do you handhold or use a tripod with the 100-400 lens. Thats what I was handholding the other day and it gets heavy after awhile.

I always hand hold as a tripod would be too restricting, Holding the 100-400 it can get tiring after a while.

When shooting at a low speed for prop blur I do a set of burst shots which I find ups the keeper rate.




  
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peacock
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Oct 20, 2006 06:29 as a reply to  @ Biko's post |  #12

Short answer; It looks goofy above 1/160 IMHO

long waffle;

I think the question of prop blur is a highly subjective one...personally I dont like the look of anything much above 1/160 , certainly anything over 1/250 and you are in the realm of the "plane spotter" or the "gear head" , the plane spotter will want to take his super sharp and detailed shots home and count the rivets on the fuselage etc , the gear head will just want the sharpest shot possible because there is the ideal that this best shows of and justifies the £3,000+ worth of gear or maybe they want to conform to the "standard" of airliners.net (the caveat here is they /you may like the look).
I like seeing aircraft fly , plenty of whizzing props , clouds or trees blurred as the bird flys past at speed so I shoot at 1/125 or less , mainly now its 1/80 for the warbirds flying and less for takeoff/ landing pans , big bombers are a little harder as they seem to use less revs ? , choppers 1/60 or less too.
Monopods and tripods get in the way and its hard to follow the action , if you are useing a 100-400L leave the IS off unless its in pan mode and the aircraft is flying straight and level and dont be afraid to shoot towards the sun , it can provide some remarkable looking shots , put the camera down from time to time to rest and get a good look at the flying , you can notice so much more ie. the best angle of the aircraft to get a good "sheen"on your prop blur and enjoy the show.

Just my personal opinion , and i may be in the minority;) , sorry for rambing (woke up in a funny old mood, grumpy old git that I am:lol: )

I took this one as it pretty much sums up how I feel about 1/250 prop blur (crappy):lol:

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whizzing props @ 1/80:D
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Daniel_B
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Oct 20, 2006 07:10 |  #13

I'd be more inclined to worry about the foreground clutter than the shutter speed in your first photo!

I also think your views on "planespotters" are very stereotypical and bear no resemblance to reality - go and look up the photography sections on an aviation forum like www.ukar.co.uk (external link) or www.fencecheck.com (external link) and you'll see that as well as an enthusiasm for the aircraft, most "spotters" who carry cameras also fall into your "gear head" category and have an enthusiasm for photography that goes far beyond "rivet counting".




  
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peacock
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Oct 20, 2006 07:45 |  #14

Daniel_B wrote in post #2145075 (external link)
I'd be more inclined to worry about the foreground clutter than the shutter speed in your first photo!

I think your views on "planespotters" are very stereotypical and bear no resemblance to reality - go and look up the photography sections on an aviation forum like www.ukar.co.uk (external link) or www.fencecheck.com (external link) and you'll see that as well as an enthusiasm for the aircraft, most "spotters" who carry cameras also fall into your "gear head" category and have an enthusiasm for photography that goes far beyond "rivet counting".

See thats the point , the foreground clutter is part of the joke you missed , its a tounge in cheek photo;)

I strongly dissagree with the rest of your sentiment ! I frequent UKAR , fencecheck , Key and plane talk amongst others . there is a weath of diversity and talent on fencecheck , but in general these sites can serve to stifle photographic creativity , people see the acepted norm of shots at between 1/250 and 1/320 and strive to conform in order to gain acceptance this stems the creativity and very few breakout to try new things, this is demonstrated many w/end by the hundreds who flock to the airshows , all camp out in similar spots and take the same shots then post them up. I defy you to say that what I've said isnt so , you were near the tank bank at the Duxford autumn airshow , you wuld have seen it and heard the shutters all firing in unisen like a machine gun chorus and the race home to all post exactly the same images on forums , I have nothing against UKAR or any of the others and indeed they can be a wealth of useful information. All the things I state are simply my opinion , nothing more and i'm well aware many people like the shots at around 1/250-1/320 great no problem you enjoy what you enjoy.
As to my views on "plane spotters" being stereotypical , well that probably because I have found the stereotypes to be true i'm afraid , from those that camp out putting up their windbreaks and stepladders spoiling everyone elses view to the ones who barge past litte kiddies to get a better view of statics.

I have seen you about on other sites and respect your right to an opinion , im sorry you took umbrage to my comments but the emotion doesnt invalidate the content.

I'm more than happy to chat with you more if you wish to reach an accord via PM


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dbahn
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Oct 20, 2006 07:56 as a reply to  @ peacock's post |  #15

What speed is this? :D

IMAGE: http://pics.woodenpropeller.com/bentprop.jpg

It does bring up an interesting question, though. How does the shutter work on the DLSR's? The bent image seen above is due to the shutter moving from one side to the other combined with a relatively slow rpm engine at a relatively slow shutter speed, and is most noticeable when the prop is horizontal.

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