-=Official=- GREAT POTN BOOK planning thread

Nick C. wrote in post #2208333
Ok, here's something I've put together somewhat quickly to illustrate another option. We don't have to limit ourselves to one size photo per page.
I know people like the idea of a full page photo but you could do something similar to the following for the section title page.

The larger frame will accommodate a 5"x7" and the smaller ones are roughly 2"x3".

A full page photo could then be displayed on the following page for instance. This way, a landscape could be place on its side, filling the whole page, but wouldn't look as unusual because there wouldn't be a section title above it suggesting that the book should be held upright.
Does that make sense?

Oh, and as you can see below, I was thinking we could use the footer of each page (or some pages) to house any quotes we want to include.

Nick,

Nice ideas - but my preference would be very simple clean fonts (Arial?) to make the image the focus - the text is there in support. Nice idea for maximising space usage tho. Are we pushing to far for 8 images a page or is 6 a better option? 3 instead of 4? This will limit the number of images per section tho.

Scottes wrote in post #2207807
One MAJOR problem that people have to remember about places like 100books or Herf Jones - print runs.
No matter how many books are sold.

Whenever they are sold.


Personalyy, I think it's a no-brainer for this project.

hmmm - see what you mean!

Simon,

Scottes had a sample on order from the 3 most likely on-demand printers and we will see what the quality is like. This whole thing is a non-starter if the quality isn't right (see the poll results!).

Scottes wrote in post #2207831
Being design-stupid, what would you do? Figure you have a portrait 8.5-inch by 11-inch page, full bleed.

1 page with 1 photo, the Signature Shot for the photog who got the most votes. Title for the Share Forum at the top?. Some text space for the photographer to say something about the shot.

PS: What do you do with the empty white space, since a landscape shot will not fill that portrait-mode page size.

Now a page with 2 shots, for the 2 runners-up. Imagine the worst, and one is landscape and the other is portrait.

And then 4 shots - probably getting eaiser now....
And then 8 shots - probably very little room for Photog text, and maybe only room for a title and photographer name.

Ya know, my comments about layout makes me realize that this could be tough. Since we'll be voting and doing different sizes based on the vote
we could have issues. What happens with a 4-shot page where only one shot is in portrait mode?

It might not be the prettiest layout, since voting determines layout, so we can't necessarily pick a great layout.

Makes me wonder if we should stick with something simple, like a few pages with 4 shots per page and a few pages with 8 shots per page. No big Signaure Shot - just the winners.

I certainly think the layout has to be simple which obviously means cutting down on the hsots but if you don't you end upo wita mish mash

One thing I HATE in photog books BTW (+FWIW) is full bleed, unless it s REALLY well done ( like Steve McCurry's books) but what I hate more than that it apic spread acrocc two pages (again FWIW)

It would be far more impressive and carry more Kudos if the pics inthe book were just the top real crackers. Now saying that is how the book should be but consider the possibility, 100 full page pics , 20 pages of tech etc text

Whatever is decided I tink the final decision should be ..'if I were ina bookshop and saw this book would I buy it?"

I have a lot of coffee table books (about 40) so I have perhaps too strong opinions on whjat they should and shouldn't be

I Simonius wrote in post #2209585
I certainly think the layout has to be simple which obviously means cutting down on the hsots but if you don't you end upo wita mish mash

Absolutely!!!!

Agree - white space makes for clean simple design and lots of impact...

Possibility. I think a mix would be approproate but once we look at desing ideas we might need to limit the number of 'dense' pages. I had in mind the sort of thing Practical Photography do when they showcase the monthly POTY competition winners...

Yess!! High Quality, high impact. Proud to own!

Likewise (not as many as you) but bring on your thoughts simon. The onyl thing I would really disagree with you on is the tech side - other than bsic technique info on each image in endpages - tech info goes out of date quickly and I wouldn't buy a book for that, I'd buy a magazien

Scottes wrote in post #2208034
Well, if we pick all the winners before we get permission on paper, that could take too long. So I'd have to say that we'd need the piece of paper before it gets put to vote.

Same for model releases.

Nick C. wrote in post #2208404
Copyright:

Is there a reason we can't do something similar to other photo competitions, whereby submitting a photo you agree to terms and conditions that would include the right to publish the aforementioned photo without royalties.

nzl-g3user wrote in post #2208474
I was thinking when it comes to copyright, is that the ownership of the photo doesn't change hands but we get the right to print and the holder doesn't get any money for it. it's a way for those that get selected to the book to have a picture printed in a book with out losing copyright.

We should also make sure that those that submit a photo understands this before doing so. This way there's nothing that is holding us back once we know which photos to print.

The ONLY thing the book needs from the photog is Permission to print in the book in any way the editor sees fit and that the photog confirms they shots are his and any model releases have been signed. You cannot ( reasonably insist that the pic is published nowhere else ever, but you could specify a time frame, e.g 3 months

=section on forum where pics get submitted, to enter you have to click term+conditions box,+ invite submissions

EOSAddict wrote in post #2209506
Nick,

Nice ideas - but my preference would be very simple clean fonts (Arial?) to make the image the focus - the text is there in support. Nice idea for maximising space usage tho. Are we pushing to far for 8 images a page or is 6 a better option? 3 instead of 4? This will limit the number of images per section tho.

Simple clean fonts is a must (sans serif) also there may be legislation (depending on where itss prnted) that it must be 'accessible' which means not using fonts hard to see by those with dodgy eyesight i.e. usually Arial

EOSAddict wrote in post #2209501
Is there anything online we can look at re the Scott Kelby thing - I'm not familiar...

Tech stuff is very passing and would date the book very quickly - come here for real if you need that - it won't make you pick the book up I think. Personal forum stuff I agree - if we can do it right - I like the idea of qutes, avatars etc and something that brings out the community - yes!

By tech stuff I was thinking photoshop stuff rather than exposure etc, but it is worth considering the idea and playing with it, surely?

For the submission I had in mind a standard text file that goes with each image. This will help with selection anonimty too.

Each i mage is submitted with a simple numeric filename in saved for web format so no EXIF data. Along side that is a .txt file of the same filename (which we provide as a template) which contains all the info, name, title, basic EXIF, and includes the T&Cs of submission. When the images are submitted to whoever (likely to be me!) the .txt file is held separately and only the anonymous image goes forward for selection but I can easily tie the two together later based on filename. By submitting the image and associated .txt file the submitter agrees to the T&Cs.

I Simonius wrote in post #2209612
By tech stuff I was thinking photoshop stuff rather than exposure etc, but it is worth considering the idea and playing with it, surely?

Ahh , my apologies. I thought you ment cameras and lenses and stuff. Yes, some good PS stuff would be interesting. But generic techniques rather than CS2 tutorials.

EOSAddict wrote in post #2209603
The onyl thing I would really disagree with you on is the tech side - other than bsic technique info on each image in endpages - tech info goes out of date quickly and I wouldn't buy a book for that, I'd buy a magazien

I think to some extent the format will be dictated by the quality of the pics

Perhaps it is time to start looking how to collate the pics ?

If we do get say 200 really cracking pics those would suggest cutting the choice down to filling the book with full page pics rather than if we get 1000 good but not show stopping pics when we might better keep the format looser?

I think it would be good to ask ( a poll even?) what would make prosective POTN members buy - I mean it would be a bit of a calamity if we produce a book that the public loves but POTNmembers don't like (they feel left out aggrieved, or even that it shows themm out to be very average photoges ) - i..e, not just US on tis discussion but how wilol the MAJORITY of POTN mmebers feel about different formats

Perhaps a little too soon but as soon as, I suggest TWO (no more) clear proposlas for format are finalised - put it to the vote ( not that we should be bound by the vote , but it needs taking into consideration)

There is always a adanger in just going with public opinion in that actually the 'public' doesn't always know best. The opinion we really want is o those out there who will actually part with money when they see it in the shops.

anyway worth putting it it the plan?

Talking of which perhaps we should draw up a timescale line - put sequence of events out on 'paper'? (here)

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on another point... TIMING Seasonal traditional present giving presents a best to realease time point, - that is usually realease 3 months before Christmas here in UK

bearing in mind proposed lead times of 3-9 moths are we broadly speaking looking to release in next Sept?

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one thing I would LOVE and also believe it will help sales is if some small percentage of the profit can go to charity (as well as the rest to help POTN costs)

Simon,

Sep 07 is probably a good plan, although earlier might be achievable. I can put a basic project plan together but the start date depends on when we can get Pekka buy-in.

The plan on collating pics thus far is to run a period of time whereby people can submit images to the Image Coordinator (say a month?), time to sort (2 weeks?) then a period to down select by Panel (6 weeks?). Then a Period of competition and voting (two weeks? a month?) then collation and design for each share (a month?) Book design (a month?) Colour matching (6 weeks? maybe more as this might be one person). Other activities can occur in parallel with this but this immediately drives a min 6 months project.

EOSAddict wrote in post #2209656
Simon,

Sep 07 is probably a good plan, although earlier might be achievable. I can put a basic project plan together but the start date depends on when we can get Pekka buy-in.

The plan on collating pics thus far is to run a period of time whereby people can submit images to the Image Coordinator (say a month?), time to sort (2 weeks?) then a period to down select by Panel (6 weeks?). Then a Period of competition and voting (two weeks? a month?) then collation and design for each share (a month?) Book design (a month?) Colour matching (6 weeks? maybe more as this might be one person). Other activities can occur in parallel with this but this immediately drives a min 6 months project.

I wouldn't aim to release around the summer holidays, I would say early sept was perfect
(also it means that thosegoing off on their hols will want to submit their travel pics for nect years book , so it might be good to state before next year s hols that the 2007 submission date will be NOV ( all of it)

Does the on e month submission time not need some warning lead in time?

It will take most users two weeks to realise that it is happening and two weeks to get apc together - rmemeber most people will probably only shhot at the weekends?

I was thinking of something now. When I go to the Gothenburg Book Fair I usually buy a book that is with all the winners and nominees for the Swedish Photojournalism Award. It's a very simple layout with the images being the focus. The fun thing is that they also include a CD with ALL the submissions. Maybe that might be an idea to also include? A CD with low-res versions of all the submissions.

Simon,

Once its setup people can order whenever they like. Yes, I agree there will need to be a lead time. BUt I would not envisage people necessarily shooting especially for this - more pulling the best shots out of their portfolios.

Claire,

I was thinking that we should have a 13th section for POTN competition winners.. what do you think?

EOSAddict wrote in post #2209830
Claire,

I was thinking that we should have a 13th section for POTN competition winners.. what do you think?

Sure. That'd probably work. But which competitions?? I mean, aren't there quite a few?