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Thread started 29 Oct 2006 (Sunday) 19:08
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300/4 and 100-400

 
Lightstream
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Oct 29, 2006 19:08 |  #1

Today's Question of the Day:

Pitch my 300 f/4L IS in favor of the 100-400?

Sadly I have always been very much of a zoom guy, who pre-visualizes shots and then gets the gear to do it. This doesn't seem to lend itself very well to a prime where I have to think like the prime, not making the prime think like me. I'm also quite an opportunistic shooter, who likes to be able to engage everything that comes along. Photography is about the moment, you'll never get the moment back after it's gone.

On the other hand the 300/4 is a MAGNIFICENT piece of hardware. Absolutely stunning. I love the hood design, the look and the lines, and the performance in the field. It has already yielded my ONLY Great Keeper shot of birds - NO other lens has done that, period. With my 1.4X TC, it becomes a 450mm and it is a fast 300/4 at its native FL compared to the 100-400 which is f/5.6 at 300mm.

Still, I always feel I am missing the flexibility. It seems my perfect travel rig would be 5D, 17-40, 24-105, and 100-400 to give me continuous coverage throughout. And the best part is that my TC is a 1.5X Kenko which can be pressed into service on the 100-400 to give me emergency 600 f/8 IS in bright light if push comes to shove. (note that I don't consider it a routine useable focal length)

What do you guys think?




  
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anoia
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Oct 29, 2006 19:20 |  #2

if you are critical about IQ, just ignore 100-400.




  
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Dorman
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Oct 29, 2006 19:22 |  #3

It sounds like you've already made up your mind and you just need that final shove. If I were you I'd go for the 100-400 IS, the marginal lack in IQ would be greatly overcome by the flexibility of the zoom. You summed it up well, you like to visualize the shot in your head and match your vision with your zoom, not the other way around.

The results I've seen from the 100-400 are stellar, it's obviously not a prime but to my eyes the IQ doesn't disappoint. The only reason I don't have one is simple, I can't afford one. :)



  
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gcogger
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Oct 30, 2006 02:11 |  #4

Also consider the Sigma 100-300 f/4 EX. The image quality appears to be just about the equal of the 300mm prime (and much better than the 100-400 I tried). The downside is the lack of IS...


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Lightstream
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Yoda
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Oct 30, 2006 02:38 |  #5

Dorman wrote in post #2187668 (external link)
It sounds like you've already made up your mind and you just need that final shove. If I were you I'd go for the 100-400 IS, the marginal lack in IQ would be greatly overcome by the flexibility of the zoom. You summed it up well, you like to visualize the shot in your head and match your vision with your zoom, not the other way around.

The results I've seen from the 100-400 are stellar, it's obviously not a prime but to my eyes the IQ doesn't disappoint. The only reason I don't have one is simple, I can't afford one. :)

Yeah.. you have guessed well, someone else noticed that too :p

Maybe this will be a good Christmas. :mrgreen: ('engineering' a gift to show up at my doorstep, even if I have to pay for it, is a Good Thing(tm)).

I'm entirely aware that previsualization works with primes too, just that my Mind's Eye seems to have acquired a 10-1200 f/1.8 IS USM L zoom of its own, and it shoots video too. ;) (turns around to yell at Mind's Eye "You been shoppin' again and not inviting me?!?!?!" :mrgreen:) if there was anywhere such a mythical lens exists, it's in the Mind's Eye, not in the physical world.

gcogger wrote in post #2188999 (external link)
Also consider the Sigma 100-300 f/4 EX. The image quality appears to be just about the equal of the 300mm prime (and much better than the 100-400 I tried). The downside is the lack of IS...

Thanks for the suggestion.. I have shot the 100-300 before and have been impressed with it, however I ain't goin' nowhere without my IS :D besides, I have a stunning 70-300 IS USM to do that job too. Not constant f/4 but not that slow either. Besides I specifically want the 400mm long end - and as many have said, native focal length beats TC any day.




  
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JNunn
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Oct 30, 2006 13:02 |  #6

Its a tough question! I made the decision to go with the 100-400L in favor of the 300 f/4 for just the reasons you cite. The 300 f/4 is supposed to be fantastic, but it is just one focal length. Unless I'm able to find a sweet deal at a camera swap or something, I don't think I'll end up with one. On the other hand, they'll have to pry my 100-400L from my cold dead hands!




  
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Jon
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Oct 30, 2006 14:32 |  #7

anoia wrote in post #2187660 (external link)
if you are critical about IQ, just ignore 100-400.

A lot of people around here will dispute that point. I'm one.


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Permagrin
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Oct 30, 2006 14:33 |  #8

Jon wrote in post #2191338 (external link)
A lot of people around here will dispute that point. I'm one.

me too, the IQ is the reason I keep the lens.
(Jon your avatar makes me laugh every time I see it...too funny)


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evandavies
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Oct 30, 2006 14:39 |  #9

anoia wrote in post #2187660 (external link)
if you are critical about IQ, just ignore 100-400.

Yep, I duno where you get that idea.

100-400 IQ does vary between copies. Some have been amazingly good so I guess others may not be quite as impressive.

I'm happy with mine but I can't compare to the 300 f/4


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cspratt
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Oct 30, 2006 14:59 |  #10

I have both and wouldn't part with either. When I do travel I take the 100-400 as it is slightly more versatile on my 10D (soon to be 30D). If birding in town I use the 300 with 1.4x converter for that slight "extra reach".


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Papaw
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Oct 30, 2006 15:13 |  #11

I used to be an avid zoom guy myself due to their flexibility. However, after purchasing the 35L I hardly ever use my 17-40 and I find myself using the 70-200 at 200 most of the time except for close bokeh effects. The zoom does get a workout at big parties and weddings. I just ordered a 400 f5.6 over the 100-400 as I feel I will be using 400 most of the time and the lightening fast focus speeds reported. Lots of threads on the 400 prime vs 100-400 and it seems it can be a matter of the copy you get of the 100-400.


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Lightstream
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Oct 30, 2006 19:17 |  #12

cspratt wrote in post #2191505 (external link)
I have both and wouldn't part with either. When I do travel I take the 100-400 as it is slightly more versatile on my 10D (soon to be 30D). If birding in town I use the 300 with 1.4x converter for that slight "extra reach".

It may eventually come down to this for me. I love the 300 too much to let it go, but I want the versatility of the zoom. Man if only I did not have to sell one to afford another.




  
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fWord
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Oct 30, 2006 22:59 as a reply to  @ Lightstream's post |  #13

Heheh...going to part with the thing that got you those magnificent duck shots with the 1D? ;)

As others have noted it appears that you pretty much have your mind made up. Photography is about the moment. With a prime lens you may be left fiddling with composition and zooming with your feet and miss that 'perfect scene'.

The zoom range of the 100-400mm makes it a supremely capable lens, add to that the very silent (though I admit not blazing fast) USM and the two stop IS and you've got yourself a complete all-in-one lens for many purposes, appetizer, soup and desert included.

Previously I had this lens and nearly didn't want to let it go. Again, for the record the zoom range is fantastic. More so on a 1.6X crop camera than anything with a larger sensor or film. With the field of view of a 640mm lens at the longest end, you'll have enough reach for plenty of things. It's also light...not much heavier than the 300mm f/4 and thus manageable.

The push-pull zoom is a thing some may not like. I've found it fast and intuitive, and while I cannot confirm if it really does blow dust on the sensor, I'm afraid I have to say that it might. Dust spots appeared more readily on my sensor after I started using that lens. Of course YMMV. Also, some have mentioned that the lens seems to soften very near the 400mm end and the lens is really still very sharp at around 380mm or so.

My experience backs this up somewhat. I've found amazing sharpness at the 100mm end straight from wide open. It's very good in the middle range too but at the 400mm end seems to lose a bit of its lustre. That said the sharpness is more than good enough for most purposes. I view at 100% which may explain why I am dissatisfied with the sharpness. For printing I guess you'll never notice.

Another 'issue' I had with the zoom was that the bokeh often didn't look as nice as I'd wanted it to be, especially since the lens is fairly slow, going to f/5.6 at around 250mm+. The max aperture is simply not wide enough at those values to give you pleasing bokeh unless you're reasonably near to your subject.

The 100-400mm can't compete with my current 300mm f/4 IS from a sharpness point of view. And I also have a little niggle about the lens hood of the zoom. The 300mm f/4 is just so much more handsome with the built-in hood.

That said, those are minor detractions. If you want a zoom for wildlife (preferably not sports, unless in good light) then I'd say this looks like the perfect lens, for now anyway. I only ditched mine because I felt it didn't deserve enough use. Then I felt the itch to go super tele again and bought back a 300mm f/4 instead because I wanted to try it out. Life is all about the experiences.

fStopJojo has given a very glowing and convincing review of the 100-400mm lens but I would say that he probably has a stellar copy, something which I probably wasn't lucky enough to receive. In his tests the performance of the 100-400mm at the 400mm end exceeds that of the 300mm f/4 with a 1.4X TC. Yes, that's expected, but in my experience I found the results the other way around. Strange but true.

Also I note that the 300mm f/4 fares poorly with a filter mounted over the front...not sure if the 100-400mm demonstrates the same loss of quality with a filter.

Best of luck on your decision, whichever one you take. If you buy one second hand and don't like it you can sell it off for not too much loss. And when that happens you'll be left with some valuable experience anyhow...I'd say it's worth it. And when someone else asks such a question in the future, you'll be fully armed to help them as well! :D


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Lightstream
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Oct 30, 2006 23:53 |  #14

Interesting.. my 300 f/4L has always been filtered (Hoya HMC UV), no image degradation noticeable. Not even using the premium B+W stuff on it. All the duck shots you see had the filter.

Good point about the experience.. I suppose one has to live it before one truly understands. Maybe I need to rent one or pick one up at the local camera shop instead of flying one in. Surprisingly, there is little cost savings to fly this one in..

I love the onboard hood of the 300/4, best design ever. That being said I really do dislike most hoods, so for me to say I like it is something. The 100-400 uses the traditional design. Push/pull is no problem, I have handled it once and liked it.

Looks-wise is where the 300 owns.. the cleaner, sleeker lines and the brushed metal nameplate all add to it. YES I LOVE MY GEAR MMMMK!! :p

I love the all-in-one thing though. Alternatively, I could really stretch the budget, buy it, and then determine what I want to let go of at a later date - which other lens I should sacrifice. Though I can find a reason to keep all of them. hmmmm.......




  
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fWord
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Oct 31, 2006 00:28 as a reply to  @ Lightstream's post |  #15

Well, funny thing here is that I was supposedly using the same filter that you are, but I had major issues with it. I posted the duck shot thread a while back when I first got the 300mm f/4. And on both pages I detail the trouble I've had with the filter:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=219424

I think it'll be a good idea to get hold of one second hand and go shooting with it for a while under various circumstances. Personally I don't believe in renting stuff because we probably need to pay by the day. And one day is not enough to experience a lens for what it truly is. There's no way I could force myself to go out shooting for an entire day on a rented lens just to test it...the experience is not the same.

Having used the 300mm f/4 just a little bit, I can honestly say that, yes I do miss the extensive zoom range of the 100-400mm, but the trick I find is to look for pictures within pictures. If something comes closer than I'd normally like, it doesn't matter. I stay put and try to capture an extreme closeup. And when it is really too close, I just back off a bit and it all works out.


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300/4 and 100-400
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