Canon XTi vs Nikon D80 vs Pentax K10D

zenpro wrote in post #2218375
Ehehe... thanks guys.

What about buying from BHPhotoVideo + about $100 of priority Fedex shipping + 15% of taxes + $5 fedex handling?

In this way I could get the 30D and still be able to buy a decent lens, a vertical grip and a card to start with?

Make sure you've converted all that into CAD $ before buying. If it works out and you can still be eligible for the rebate, I'd say it'd be a nice deal. At double rebate, you get an amazing 17.1% off from sticker price for the 30D! Now that's something to rejoice about. And don't bother with the 75-300 III if you're going with Canon.

BHPhotoVideo have some sweet deals, however I suspect the double rebate wouldn't work because it is bought in another country:

zenpro wrote in post #2218557
BHPhotoVideo have some sweet deals, however I suspect the double rebate wouldn't work because it is bought in another country:

Oh sorry, didn't catch you weren't in US.

Bummer, especially since the rebate programs coincide with each other. You might want to ask a rep just to make absolutely sure though. I don't see why Canadian neibhors should be charged so much more than us.

grego wrote in post #2218561
Oh sorry, didn't catch you weren't in US.

No problem, I'm in Canada and it's really hard to decide for a local store like henry's or go through the pain of dealing with customs fees. I supect the best solution would be to buy the camera with a first lens in Canada. Then buy the future equipment from BH.

Wow that is a tough decision. If final price is within $100 of each other, I'd go for local shop since you can chalk up the premium as super fast delivery. Depends on what you value though of course. And are you close to the border? If you are, you can just drive down for your future purchases if Canadian prices continue to be so high. Makes for a nice place to visit with your new cam too!

Really your choices boil down to Canon or Nikon.

Pentax, Sony , Samsung, Olympus - all make nice DSLR systems that are not to be sneezed at, they have nice lkenses, and if you have a lens system that belongs to Pentax or Minolta, you have an investment to protect.

But all of these non-Canon/ non-Nikon brands suffer from some minor issues that I as a dyed-in-the-wool Canonite could not accept. The metering is not as good, the noise handling is not as good, ISO is usually more limited, and autofocus is no where near as fast or accurate. And in-camera antishake, while helpful, is not a patch on the in-lens variety that Canon has pioneered. Self cleaning sensors, while a nice idea, are not essential - usually all you ever need to do is use a rocket blower - and that's that. I've had my 20D for 10 months and have never had to swab the sensor. If you are anywhere used to using your 7NE to it's capacity, you will find the other cameras a real backward step. In addition, they 're ALL small cameras, and as one of your issues with the XTi was size and build - you've shot your options down already.

Now choosing between the Nikon D80 and Rebel Xti and 30D is much harder. I assume you have been down to the store and handled the respective cameras? If that doesn't resolve the issue for you, you then have to ask how bonded you are to Canon? the fact is, you already have some Canon gear includingn a very good flash - if you switch brands you can sell stuff - but you won't get that much for it, especially as a trade-in. Fiulm cameras are not going for serious money any more, and you will be disappointed. the 7NE is a great camera, and you might even want to hang onto it for a while unless you know for sure you will never use film again. i decided to keep my old eos film camera, opartly sentiment, partly because I might need it again, but mostly because whn it was new it cost proportionately more mthan my 20D did - and there's no way I'll sell it for peanuts.

As I see it, the nikon D80 is actually some way above the XTi in spec and price, and the 30d is some way above the D80 in build and spec and price.

Money is always an issue but in your shoes I'd get the 30D with a kit lens, use my existing gear while saving for better lenses over time. The sensible thing to do would be to get the XTi, save a bunch on the body and have extra to invest in glass - but again, after handling a 'real' camera like the 7NE, the XTi feels a little disappointing - but you will get over that. It is a seriously impressive camera.

Regardless of what you get, you are so going to enjoy a digital SLR. I hope you stay with Canon though!

With the info you provided I voted for the Pentax K10D.
Canon definitely provides more lens options. Biggets of any manufacturer. No argument.
Pentax have several new lenses being released, so the quality and performance is unknown regarding those. There are plenty of good lenses that have been reviewed however. Sigma Tokina and Tamron provide lots of options.
K10D has the biggest and brightest viewfinder of the three options which is a big factor to me.
I had 2 Pentax istDs for about 12 months. Neither camera ever had any type of error or lockup and I used a range of lenses. My 20D would have some type of issue weekly. My 5D is much better but it still misbehaves occassionally.
Obviously I have not sample enough of either brand to be able to make a accurate judgement regarding reliablity , but my experience has been Pentax are rock solid and I'll share that info.
For long term expandibilty , I'd say Canon, if staying closer to your intial budget, K10D.

steved110 wrote in post #2218692
But all of these non-Canon/ non-Nikon brands suffer from some minor issues that I as a dyed-in-the-wool Canonite could not accept. The metering is not as good, the noise handling is not as good, ISO is usually more limited, and autofocus is no where near as fast or accurate.

That is my main fear with a runner up brand.

I held the XTi and the 30D for 10 seconds in the store... the 30D felt like the digital counterpart of my Elan 7ne.

I agree. D80 competes with 30D because it is just slightly inferior, but definetely cheaper (at least in Canada). And Nikon has a 18-200 zoom that produce quality images for about $800. Canon doesn't have an equivalent zoom, and I'm fine with that because Canon lenses can be wonderful in smaller ranges. On the other hand, 30D competes with XTi as well, because XTi is cheaper and allows me to buy right now a good lens, rather than waiting on another bonus from my employer when and if it will arrive (and considering that my wife may have other plans for those extra dollars that will come by).

Consider this... I had a Pentax MX when I was a kid... fully manual camera, some nice pictures taken with it... but it was the cheapest camera available at the time, and I was rather disappointed by its limited features. Then, about 8 years later, I bought my Elan and it was great. I finally saw the difference between a cheap entry level camera and a camera that, can be used by a professional as a backup (yes, it's not the 1V but still respectable). I wouldn't want to go back to an entry level camera, albeit an impressive one.

When I was at the store with my wife, I held the XTi and I said... wow, and they charge me > $1K for this toy... so I asked to my wife, to hold it and tell me what she thought. First sentence from her mouth: "it's a plastic toy". Then I gave her the 30D and she said "wow, what a difference". I had the same thoughts more or less.

By the way, I own a decent flash (420EX) with omni-diffuser and I own 2 Sigma zooms... I read that some un-patched Sigmas wouldn't work with the new digital cameras, that 300D or 20D would give errors with them. Is this really the case?

I hope so too, also because I've read so much about Canon, that I feel like it would be a waste not to use some of this knowledge.


Thanks.

zenpro wrote in post #2218778
I read that some un-patched Sigmas wouldn't work with the new digital cameras, that 300D or 20D would give errors with them. Is this really the case?

That is confirmed. Though exactly which Sigma models are still not perfectly clear. The easiest and most accurate method to see if yours will work or not is to take them along with you to your local camera shop and test it out on the 30D.

zenpro wrote in post #2218778
Consider this... I had a Pentax MX when I was a kid... fully manual camera, some nice pictures taken with it... but it was the cheapest camera available at the time, and I was rather disappointed by its limited features. Then, about 8 years later, I bought my Elan and it was great. I finally saw the difference between a cheap entry level camera and a camera that, can be used by a professional as a backup (yes, it's not the 1V but still respectable). I wouldn't want to go back to an entry level camera, albeit an impressive one.

You seemed to have mixed feelings about the MX.
It was limited because it was a fully manual camera!
However whatever you thought of it ,It was not "cheap entry level"

From wikipedia:
"It was Pentax's flagship professional SLR until the introduction of the Pentax LX."

Or
http://www.bdimitrov.d​e/kmp/bodies/M/MX.html
"The MX is technically part of the M series, but the only important characteristic that it shares with these bodies is its small size. In most other respects its is closer to the LX, and it was promoted by Pentax as a professional body. In fact the MX and LX either share some accessories, or have separate accessories that are not available for the other bodies."

This is reflected in the higher used price for an MX over a MG/MV/ME/ME Super etc.

Good thread, sensible debate and much of that is down to an outstanding outline of needs from Mr Zen ....

So, I really enjoy my 30D and I enjoyed my 350D and 300D before that. What the 30D offers me over the lesser class of models is outstanding handling, much greater responsiveness and a better AF system. The 400D is makeweight camera in my view. Offers no real advantage to a shooter over the 350D and feels cheap and nasty for the price. I think that is a universal appraisal. It will take good pictures, but for me it isn't a camera you can love. Feel is very important. If you don't care so much Mr Zen then it could enable you to buy better lenses. I think you do care about that tho' so let's discount it as an option. It won't make you happy.

The Pentax looks a great option at the price and I love my classic Pentax lenses. They are amongst the best lenses I have ever owned for IQ and feel, including 5 L's. BUT, for me now isn't the time to but Pentax. Let's see how they shape up over the next 12 months. I think they are going to make some impressive stuff for shooters rather than 'spec hunters', and you can use their classic MF lenses too which are available at very nice prices, but for me I wouldn't risk my money just yet. Let's see how they shape up.

Now the D80 really is an impressive camera at a great price. In the UK it is not much more than the 400D and feels so much better to use. The 30D adds no value to me at £180 more (dunno about rebates). As a one off, 'do most of what most will need' buy then the D80 with 18-200mm VR is impossible to beat right now. The only reason to look beyond that duo is if you need greater speed or greater length.

So, what would I go for this moment ... I'd honestly pick the Nikon, plus keep an open mind about some of the outstanding 3rd party lenses that are around. For example, the 30mm 1.4 is a beauty and there are plenty of others to choose from. However, if you pick either Canon or Nikon systems then you will be happy, so don't sweat it too much. You know you are the biggest element in producing an interesting shot. Imagination, craft, exposure and composition are more important. The gear is just a tool.

Zenpro, you've pretty much talked yourself into a 30D. go with it. you'll be happy. I went with my 20d because t 'felt' like my film Eos - alsoa proper camera!
the other issue is that you 're familiar with Eos, so the jump from film to digital is smaller. I wouldn't go with nikon simply because they have an 18-200 VR lens - is it optically any good - most super zooms carry compromises, is the Nikon any better just because it has VR?

Get a 30D and be happy. True happiness lies in the way of Eos,

Steve, here's a lens chart for the 18-200. Whether if it's worth the price is up to the user.

Choderboy wrote in post #2218838
You seemed to have mixed feelings about the MX.
It was limited because it was a fully manual camera!
However whatever you thought of it ,It was not "cheap entry level"

From wikipedia:
"It was Pentax's flagship professional SLR until the introduction of the Pentax LX." [...]

Sorry Dave, it wasn't the MX... I checked it out online and I believe it was the MZ-M or something like that.

Thanks.