subzero temperature

Manual for most digital cameras say operating tem is 0 to 50. Living in Canda where most of the time you are bellow zero I wonder, how do you work when it is bellow zero?

keep it warm, but not where it will go between extreme heat and cold quickly. Take the batteries out when not shooting and make sure to keep them warm. Use the Sandisk extreme III cf cards

I have used mine in -20 C and it has never been a problem other than battery life is much shorter. When you come back in from the cold leave the camera in the bag for an hour or so to prevent condensation.

Gerhard

twotimer wrote in post #2241859
I have used mine in -20 C and it has never been a problem other than battery life is much shorter. When you come back in from the cold leave the camera in the bag for an hour or so to prevent condensation.

I second that. Also I noticed that the batteries go "dead" in the cold but magically "recharge" when they get warm again. So it helps to have more than one fully charged battery and to keep one of them in an inside pocket.

SaharaWizard wrote in post #2241820
Living in Canda where most of the time you are bellow zero I wonder, how do you work when it is bellow zero?

Well here in Chicago, when it gets below zero, we do bellow, and quite loudly. Most of the time we bellow out something like "IT"S FU**ING COLD OUT"

twotimer wrote in post #2241859
I have used mine in -20 C and it has never been a problem other than battery life is much shorter. When you come back in from the cold leave the camera in the bag for an hour or so to prevent condensation.

Gerhard

I second this too !! I have shot a -12º/13º C during skying and not more problems than that, assuming you are not leaving for long period the camera outside and you don´t protect it. Condensation ussually occurs when you pass from a cold/iced environment to a warmer one suddenly.

SaharaWizard wrote in post #2241820
Manual for most digital cameras say operating tem is 0 to 50. Living in Canda where most of the time you are bellow zero I wonder, how do you work when it is bellow zero?

I was thinking about this the other day. I live in Canada too and it's going to be -20 fairly soon. Considering the weather, the D200 maybe a better choice than 30D after all...

I've read a lot (and done some) sub zero shootings without any problem although you battery lifetime might be shorter than usual, the only potential problem is AFTER shooting when you get back to a warm place condensation.

now condensation is just distiled water, so technically it wont affect your camera if you don't use it before a few hours. if you are really nervous about it here what u can do just put your camera in a large plastic bag BEFORE going inside and leave it there a few hours...
I recently wrote an article about that you can find it here

I would not expect the D200 to be any better than the 30D in cold weather because the CCD sensor in the D200 has greater power requirements than the CMOS sensor in the 30D. However, I have never heard of any Nikon or Canon users having problems in cold weather after they learn to keep a couple of extra batteries warm in an inside pocket.

Do not put a cold camera inside your jacket to keep it warm. The moist, warm air next to your body can cause condensation on the cold camera and lens that will at best freeze and put you out of damage when you take the camera out to shoot and at worst short out and damage the electronics.

I have used my D60 and 20D at temperatures as low as -30 C with no problems. I have no idea why the manual state 0 C as the low end of the operating range.

I live in Minnesota and shoot skiing. Often I am out at -20F with no problems.

Just carry extra batteries and keep them warm. That being said, I've shot all day at around 0F with the same battery - 500 shots or so.

The problem is, as has been said before, bringing the cold camera into the warm moist indoor air. Unless you protect your camera, you will instantly get condensation all over the camera and lenses and INSIDE as well - inside is what can destroy your camera rapidly. The state of the art electronics in side, can be damaged almost immediately if powered on with water/condensation if there is any ionic contamination on the board (there will be). This damage is not covered by the warranty.

The trick to this is to put your gear in plastic sealable bags (I use aloksaks) when you are out in the cold before you bring it in. Then, leave them there until the temp of the gear is above the indoor dew point (point at which water condenses). I have also used a weathersealed camera bag (kinesis holster) and that works ok too since the foam acts like a cooler and lets it come to temp slowly.

When you get in the dead of winter, when even the indoor air is very dry - then it becomes not much of a problem either.

There are also numerous cases of where people have taken cameras from air conditioned inside air at 72F and gone out into humid tropical air and instantly ruined their camera. There was just a thread on that over at Fredmiranda.com from some guy who was on a cruise. So, this isn't only a cold weather problem.

Really, though, I leave my gear in cold (in the car) when not using it and just only bring it in once a day at the end - and then use the plastic bags. If it is still in the car, then I just let it warm up as I drive home. I've not had any problems whatsoever with that strategy.

J.

JohnJ80 wrote in post #2247889
.... The trick to this is to put your gear in plastic sealable bags (I use aloksaks) when you are out in the cold before you bring it in. Then, leave them there until the temp of the gear is above the indoor dew point (point at which water condenses). I have also used a weathersealed camera bag (kinesis holster) and that works ok too since the foam acts like a cooler and lets it come to temp slowly.

The inside of the camera will not condense as bad as folks think. It needs moist air on a cold surface and though the surfaces are cold inside the camera, the air exchange is almost non-existent unless you start using the zoom or switching lenses. But, I use the bag trick all the time. Commercial Ziplocks work great and they are dirt cheap.

gjl711 wrote in post #2247920
The inside of the camera will not condense as bad as folks think. It needs moist air on a cold surface and though the surfaces are cold inside the camera, the air exchange is almost non-existent unless you start using the zoom or switching lenses. But, I use the bag trick all the time. Commercial Ziplocks work great and they are dirt cheap.

True, air exchange is low but if there is any exhange at all, the humidity rapidly will come to equilibrium on both sides and it is enough given that the lens mount is not all that tight and you have one massive, vulnerable IC right behind it and exposed (sensor).

The real problem is that state of the art semiconductors are not at all tolerant of shorts between pins - which is what happens with condensation in the presensce of ions. At the semiconductor geometries used in these cameras there is no ability to withstand this for even short periods of time.

Too, the packaging of those ICs (ball grid array packages) are not very tolerant either - it is easy to entrap material underneath. If moisture comes in contact with that, little conducting fingers start growing between areas of higher voltage and lower voltage. When they touch - they can short out.

There is enough - go read some of the threads of people who have had problems. They get some condensation - usually noted because the outside of the lens fogs (like your glasses can) and then they find that their camera no longer works or works erratically.

In point of fact, this is exactly how manufacturers test the reliability of devices and to prematurely age them (called life testing). It is based on cycles of temp changes and humidity (sometimes with vibration). You do a lot of cycles of this, and you are starting down that path. When you get to the point that the moisture collects enough ions from either the circuit board surfaces, from field service fingerprints, from the air (many sources), shorts happen and you WILL get failures.

In the case of cameras these are failures that are not covered by warranty.

Don't forget too, that the exchange of air is helped by the expansion and contraction of the camera as it warms up.

J.

JohnJ80, all good points. And like I say, bags are cheap so why take any risk.

amen to that.

really though, the camera manufacturers ought to protect this stuff better than they do. Weathersealing is one way, maybe some form of conformal coating or something is another. This is sort of the silent killer of cameras - one minute it works, the next minute it is useless junk.

J.

gjl711 wrote in post #2248106
JohnJ80, all good points. And like I say, bags are cheap so why take any risk.

But is a bag really necessary if you wait 1-2 hours to turn the camera on again after coming in from the cold? There can't be a short when everything is dry again... or am I missing something?