UWA Lenses & Architectural Shots

I'm an Architect by day and a photography enthusiast by night (& weekend)
My firm uses a local pro to shoot our buildings (Interior & Exterior) at the end of our jobs.
We use these images for marketing, Competition Boards, future RFP's, etc...

Well the last 3 building we've had shot the firm has been really unhappy w/ the results. They have had a washed-out, over exposed look to them. Also, the photographer has been missing what they feel are key elements of the building.

Soooo, It's well known around the firm that I do photography as a hobby. I have some of my images framed and hanging in my office and occasionally get into discussion around the office about the subject.

After this last batch of photographs, I was approached by one of the partners to see if I was willing to "reshoot" the building and I was offered a fee.

I agreed to reshoot the building for free this time, but should they like the work, they would have to treat it as if it was an outside service and pay accordingly.

So I went and got information on the Pro and a copy of his price breakdown. (Gasp... I can't believe how much we pay this guy just for the shoot. Then a 20x30 scan for example was $160 for 1 image). I found out this photographer is older and shoots film only. (Not that there is anything wrong w/ either of those things but he's adding extras steps, and money by having to process in the dark room, scan the images, to which we then further tweak digitally if needed.)

Some demographics of our area; City is Wilmington, DE

So this made a light go off... Why not. It could very well be a way to subsidize this hobby. I have a unique insight into the subject matter from a photography perspective.

As it stands now, I'm already the "Go-to Guy" in the firm for doing renderings, board designs, marketing graphics, etc... I'm 1 of 2 Architects in the office that is proficient at Photoshop as well as various modeling software.

Now the research begins... What equipment do I need.

A quick fix, I just ordered a EF-S 10-22mm. Although not technically an L lens, it does have L glass, just not the same build.

So what other lens(es) would you suggest? I shoot a 1.6 Crop now, but will definitely be upgrading to a 5D in about a year (Maybe sooner if this pans out)

I'm looking at the EF14mm f/2.8L & EF 24mm f/1.4L & MAYBE TS-E 24mm f/3.5L

What's the history on these prime focal lengths?
I'm sure there is a reason that they chose 14mm & 24mm as a "standard", that they didn't just arbitrary pick the focal length.

I'm not really sure I would need the TS. Although there are "High Rises" (14 stories being about as tall as they build here), Most the local firm build between 2-4 stories in various building types and many of the required shots would be interior as interior renovations and adaptive re-use are large markets here. (My firm does primarily education and religious. Our website can be found in my Sig.)

But If I do this, I would also market my services to the other local firms as well. (Which would be easy as it a small, tight niche design community)

Any other insight would also be appreciated.

Tilt shift would be the ultimate. Keep in mind, with the 24, on your camera your FOV will be near 38.4mm. If you can be patient and master these, you'll defintely get killer shots.

Exciting stuff!! Congrats!!

Personally, I would go with a TS-E lens (not sure what length tho -- never used one) if this ends up being something you do regularly. Yes, you can remove distortions in PhotoShop but that will mean stretching pixels, which will never give you the same quality (esp when enlarged) as a TS-E lens will give you optically.

But for now, use the 10-22 and see what happens. Get a TS-E lens if you're in ongoing demand

I have the 10 22 and when I first got it I had a lot of buildings lean over and have all sorts of strange angles. The biggest mistake you can make with this lens is point it up, you want the camera to point at the building at 90 degrees. Once I owned it for a month or so I was able to get more photos that I was happy with. You just have to be careful to keep people out the edge of the frame as they become unflatteringly wide there.

Gerhard

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grego wrote in post #2250308
Tilt shift would be the ultimate. Keep in mind, with the 24, on your camera your FOV will be near 38.4mm. If you can be patient and master these, you'll defintely get killer shots.

Thanks grego... Yeah, I understand that. I'm looking at if from more of a long term investment into the glass. As stated above, I'll be upgrading to a full frame in the next year or so. I want to see what canon has up it's sleeve for the 5d being they just revamped the XT(i) and the 30D, I'm sure the 5D is next on the "upgrade list".

Yeah linarms, thanks. kind of a no brainer really. After being approached, I had a "Duh" moment where I thought why didn't I think of that.

But honestly, being I do Architecture all day, I use other artistic mediums and an outlet... So from an artistic point, I never really wanted to mix "business w/ pleasure"... but this situation sounds like a win-win to me.

You pay.. I buy more L glass.

twotimer wrote in post #2250367
...you want the camera to point at the building at 90 degrees. ...You just have to be careful to keep people out the edge of the frame as they become unflatteringly wide there.

Gerhard

Thanks Gerhard... Noted

Thats a nice shot... focus appears sharp, colors are nice. Whats the story behind it?
do you, yourself do architectural photography?

GCRollo wrote in post #2250439
Thanks grego... Yeah, I understand that. I'm looking at if from more of a long term investment into the glass. As stated above, I'll be upgrading to a full frame in the next year or so. I want to see what canon has up it's sleeve for the 5d being they just revamped the XT(i) and the 30D, I'm sure the 5D is next on the "upgrade list".

If you plan to go full frame, the 24 TS would be nice, for building stuff.

EF 14mm f/2.8L USM

I would lean towards the TSE lens anyday. Ya the 10-22 is nice and wide, but distortion plays in real quick. I'm in love with the TSE lens and have been thinking about going into the architecture realm myself. It's the only real way to do it. If you plan to go FF, then the TSE will be a lifesaver. It produces a much better image.

Remember, first impression is everything, really, everything. If a potential client sees an OK image, then it's over.

Glen - perspective of an image is controlled purely and simply by the distance between the subject and the viewer (or camera) and the geometry of the viewing. Perspective is NOT controlled by a camera's focal length.

In setting up for a shot of any subject with a conventional camera, the first thing should NOT be to try to arbitrarily choose a lens or focal length. The first step is to find a place to take the shot from that will provide the desired perspective.

You could use a couple of small carpenter's framing squares (or even both of your hands with thumbs extended) held together to create a rectangular "frame" to view the subject through. Find a location that will give you a pleasing view of the subject. THEN you determine what focal length you need to allow your camera to fill the camera's viewfinder with the view that you chose FROM THE SAME VIEWING LOCATION.

There are tricks that a photographer can use to reduce the apparent perspective "distortion" in a scene by keeping the "film plane" of a camera more parallel to the subject. When you view a tall building from a position fairly close to the building and point the camera up from the ground , the parallel edges of the building seem to converge near the top. This convergence can be reduced in a photographic image by keeping the film plane of the camera more nearly vertical (camera pointed horizontally) and moving the lens up while still having it pointed horizontally (as you can with a view camera) to get a different portion of the subject into the frame. The lens movement possible with a view camera can be emulated to a very limited degree with the tilt/shift lenses designed for 35mm cameras.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that too many people get hung up on first choosing the photographic equipment and totally forget the physics of viewing things. For example, many photographers tend to believe that an ultra-wide-angle lens is necessary for shots of outdoor scenery. In many cases this is far from the truth, but these photographers will never get the best images possible because they don't really look at the scene before choosing a focal length to use.

One small, cheap lens I'd really recommend: The Tokina 17mm f3.5 ATF Pro. Its got very little distortion for such a wide beast. It needs to be stopped down to 4.5 or so to be sharp but then its a great lens no one knows about. They can be found used for under $300.
Then when you get rich doing this, get a CZ or Leica 15mm rectilinear and an adapter. About 10X as much as the Tokina, but hey, its only money

I am also an Architect that likes to play Architectural Photographer. I use mainly the EF 17 - 40 L for exteriors and the 10 - 22 for interiors. Use a good tripod, a cable release and make sure the camera is level. The tilt/shift lenses do not work properly with the bodies with built in flash (they hit the top of the camera). They are fantastic with the 5d. You can not only correct perspective but also achieve incredible depth of field with these lenses. Hope this helps.

I agree with Skip about seeing in your mind's eye what you want to capture in the photo, then choosing the appropriate equipment to do that. Having said that, consider these points:

1. Architectural photography has, for decades and decades, taken advantage of very wide lenses and view camera movements.
2. 35mm perspective control/ tilt-shift lenses have arisen to permit 35mm film cameras to emulate the movements of view cameras.
3. 'Perspective control' in architectural photography involves keeping the film plane (sensor) parallel to the vertical rise of the wall and using shift movement (rise, fall) to capture details above (or below) camera position without the fall-over feeling.
4. PC lenses were made in focal lengtht best suited for 35mm film (and FF dSLR) dimensions. Attempting to do architectural work with APS-C format will be especially challenging since PC lenses are not wide enough in that format for good architectural work. (Nikon made 28mm PC, and Olympus and Canon made 24mm PC lens for architectural purposes...but the same lens on APS-C camera is equivalent to 38mm lens on film SLR -- barely out of 'normal' category as defined by the frame dimension diagonal!) Consider that view cameras are the true mainstay of a true architectural photographer. A wide angle lens on a camera does not make an architectural photo; you will find places where it is impossible to not photography yourself in a reflection without employing the tricks of a view camera lateral shift in conjunction with a WA lens.

A view camera without a lot of supplemental lighting also does not make an architectural photo; and 'supplemental lighting' is not always electronic flash!

GCRollo wrote in post #2250486
I guess my hesitation w/ the TS lens is its such a specialty lens (plus, it looks scary ).

If you are doing archetectural photography a TS would probably be what you use a lot of the time, although prossibly not wide enough for domestic interiors the 24mm TS is probably good for industrial/buisness type stuff.

Not only can you use it to limit perspective distortion using the shift but this can also be used to avoid getting your own reflection is shots including mirrors and other very reflective surfaces. Also you can get control over the angle of the plane of focus using the tilt function.

Thank you everybody for taking the time for some very informative responses...

SkipD

Thank you for some very valuable insight into the subject (and photography in general). I have to admit some of what you stated went over my head a bit so I had to Google it. I attached an diagram that illustrates much of what you were talking about, for other who read this.

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