New here, can I play?

Hello seasoned vetrans and the like of the wonderful world of Canon photography. After searching around on the net I found this forum and thought maybe this might be a friendly one I could join to get help with respect to my new hobby and obtaining a new SLR Canon.

I have owned a Canon G2 for some time now and loved it. Damn thing is bullet proof and keeps going, and going and... I bought a better lens for it and a external flash. Works good but I'm finding that I must step up to another level to meet my needs.

What are those needs? Well, I own a company that designs, installs structural and landscape lighting systems. We are always needing to take pictures of lighting projects for advertising, magazine articles and such. These types of pictures have to be done right and that means we are always chasing down an expensve photographer to do it. This has GOT to stop. It's certainly not rocket science to shoot these pictures one must just get the right tools, the right knowledge and have at it.

So here I am on my journey to handle this project and have me some fun along the way right?! I need to find a good Canon SLR and my photographer said a zoom wide angle from Sigma, around a 20mm range would likely suit my needs. I'm thinking 8 to 10 megapixel body would do the trick here and I'm wondering what to look for. Whew, so much informaiton is out there so I thought surely you folks may be able to help me. I don't think I need the most wizz bang brand new Canon for this year, maybe an older model or something? I don't know....If anyone care to lend this newbie a hand why, you would be a hero. All comments are welcome. Thanks for having me and this is a nice forum y'all have here!

Welcome!

There is a plethora of information floating around here. My advice is start reading and researching. If you've got some examples of the kind of work you would like to produce, then maybe post some links up here so we can give some opinions on the sort of stuff you might need (or want).

Enjoy the stay!

hi analogsound and welcome to the forum....im sure you'll find all you need here the folks are welcoming and stuffed full of information all you need to do is ask.

well the first thing is to let us know how much budget you have?
the 20d camera is an excellent camera and now that it has been discontinued by the 30D there should be some good deals on them
as far as lens well the 17-40L has a very high reputation , also the 10-22 if you need to go wider. there is also the third party lenses but ive never used them so ill let others chip in with the thoughts on them.
a flash may also be of use if its evening or low light shots for a touch of fill in flash
oh yeah and a tripod..the list goes on
btw ok its not rocket science ..but do you wonder why people pay photogs instead of doing it themselves?? (even god took 7days to create the earth.lol)

good luck and let us see your shots when you've got setup.

Welcome also

some thoughts.
Canon DSLR range is fairly basic lowest price to most expensive.
XTi
30D
5D
1DMK11N
1DSMK11

(Current models) XT (350D) and 20D still available.
Good palce to start for price hunting is B&H.
http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …&A=getpage&Q=Ro​otPage.jsp

All of those cameras will do the job.
Don't agree with the Sigma recommendation. Large choice of lenses from several manufactures provide excellent results. Also a large range in price.

Google "crop factor". You'll almost certainly find you're way back here.
Only the 5D and1DSMK11 are full frame, others have a "crop factor"
You're going to hear the term a lot , so might as well look it up now.

I'd get any one of those cameras. Get a lens too Canon 50 1.8 is very cheap , and very usefull. Get one of those and start shooting. (avoids the mind boggling decision of which lens or lenses to buy) You will have some reference when chosing your more expensive lens / lenses. (notice how I keep saying lenses , plural.. ) Start paying close attention to what the photographers you are paying are doing. Start taking pics of the same subjects....

Given you want to shoot lighting systems, your first lens requirement will be something fast, I'd think. Wide would be nice, but fast will be majorly important. Second would be a tripod and remote release. For the lens, there are several 17-50ish f/2.8 lenses out there for the APS-C sensors, and they're all pretty good. That'd cover most of your shooting needs. Later you could add an f/2 or faster wide prime. Put it on anything from a 350D/XT on up and you'll be good to go. Once you move beyond the Digital Rebel line you get ISO 3200, but I rather suspect you won't want the noise of a high ISO in your pictures, so that's probably not a big deal, nor is the faster max. frame rate. So, go with the 350D, which is still around, and put the bulk of the money into a good lens. My preference would be Canon's 17-55 f/2.8 IS in that case. If you were to go with a 1D family or 5D (at 3+ times the cost) body, I'd look for a 24-70 f/2.8 from Canon or Sigma or the 28-75 f/2.8 from Tamron to go on it. I don't suspect you'll really need a very long lens for the bulk of your shooting. If you start to need one, maybe the 85 f/1.8 or the 100 f/2 for the 1Ds or 5D, 50 f/1.4 or 85 f/1.8 on APS-C.

Thanks gentleman!

I have a hot shoe flash and tripod so I am good there. "Crop factor"...yes I've heard referance to this and need to read more. I really don't want to drop more than about 800.00 on a body and maybe 500.00 a lens for now. I think that I can pull this of for that kind of coin right now anyway.

I have been paying close attention to what the pros we hire are doing and asking questions. Thats where I got the advice on the Sigma. Again, my main focus (no pun intended) is shooting near dusk/evening shots of our landscape lighting projects and structural lighting projects. Also interior lighting projects. If I can get that down right I'll be in heaven. I realize that this industry is complex and involved. I'm not trying to be a pro at it, I just need to be able to get a small corner of it handled for our business and maybe from that have a bit of fun along the way.

It's funny though as I have a long history in photography but I don't know much about it. My father and his mother both worked at Eastman Kodak in the 1940's and 1950's. I have a deticated shelf in my office of cameras that my Dad and Grandma owned. My Dad even built a small darkroom in the garage when we moved from Rochester to the southwest in the early sixties. You would think I would know more about taking pictures wouldn't you? LOL ohhh well...sigh.

Thank you again and if anyone else has .02 cents I'm all ears here.

Here's $0.02:
Ignore the crop factor. You pick your viewpoint to show product, or product in installed environment. You zoom to frame and crop in camera. A big deal is made of crop factor, but unless printing big, or doing a lot of wide angle, an APS-C sensor camera will do fine. Who gives a hoot.

How big will catalog ads or magazine spreads print? That really determines your body/sensor requirement. I did a trade show banner 7 feet long from a 6 MP shot. No one complained.

I'll tell you what toys I carry in my field location gym bag:
1. A decent tripod with a quick release head. Any tripod is better than no tripod. For your work, anything similar to: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …ghType=category​Navigation. Look for used.
2. A $20 double axis bubble level to avoid distortion of wide angle shots of products installed their landscape.
3. If you are in the SW USA, get a "warming polarizing filter" CP+81A, like a Hoya Moose Filter, to add inviting warmth and character to lighting product shots in the landscape. Buy the thread diameter for the largest lens you have, and use step down rings to fit other lenses in the bag.
4. Get a Whi-Bal card or similar for digital White Balance. I use larger 4x6. Any brand, but this is a must have product.
5. Get a $25 collapseable circular diffusion panel. For shooting reflective installed products in place, it is more important to kill specular highlight reflections and harsh daylight shadows than it is to add light with flash. There are lots of reasons I use these in field on stuff like irrigation equipment. You'll thank me. Any brand 22" or bigger is fine, like: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …EG&addedTroughT​ype=search. Diffusion reflector size depends on your installed product sizes. I can't over emphasize how much this is used. You can always do a longer low ISO exposure from a tripod in lower light, but you can't kill specular reflections without diffusion.
6. A sandbag to shoot from ground level, or counter weight tripod arm.
7. Small flashlight to manual focus aid in the dark before longer exposures.
8. A non-reflective seamstress ruler for sizing shots.
9. Pen knife, and especially small stainless steel scissors for gently and aesthetically cutting away plant parts from products without pissing off property managers.
10. Rubber knee pads for me.
11. Extra batteries and flash memory cards in waterproof cases.
12. A shutter release cable.
13. Spritz bottle with water to add fact dew drops when appropriate.

Ok, that's my junk bag. I also use a QFlash, but let's not go there.

As far as camera, any used 20D, or a 30D, or a Nikon, they'll all do fine. The Canon XT series does not have Canon's quick control dial, nor the LCD on top, and are less convenient when on location, on tripod, for ground level shooting, which you will do from a tripod with lighting in a landscape. A deal breaker for me using XT line, but the Canon XTi is a cheap fabulous camera.

Lenses?
1. A CLOSE FOCUSING wide angle zoom to get close to product, and then let perspective have other parts of shot diminishing in size is kind of essential. A Canon 17-40L, an EF-S 17-55 IS, Tamron 17-50. That kind of thing. It's impossible to make a specific recommendation. Many lenses will do the job. The Sigma 17-70 focuses very close for this work, but I know nothing of its quality. I use a 16-35 for this stuff.

2. A tripod mounted telephoto. Here, you stand back at sunset, lights are on, and shoot the pretty family sipping wine on their patio, with curved walkway and patio lighting, and COMPRESS everything in the distance, highlighting the job your company just did. For a corporate landscape, you'd do the same shot with the wide angle on tripod and bubble level.
It's a bizarre recommendation, but I'd tell you to buy a Sigma 150mm f/2.8 macro, which will double use for isolating close-up shots in the landscape. If not, buy a 200mm tele, or a 70-200 lens, and buy a 60mm or 100mm macro lens separate in the future.

I know opinions are cheap. With this in mind:

Analogsound wrote in post #2276074
I have a hot shoe flash and tripod so I am good there. "Crop factor"...yes I've heard referance to this and need to read more. I really don't want to drop more than about 800.00 on a body and maybe 500.00 a lens for now. I think that I can pull this of for that kind of coin right now anyway.

I just do a 20D, and the Sigma 17-70 to start, with some accessories... Jack

Wonderful, thanks Jack and all else who dropped their .02 cents. This helped TREMEDOUSLY!! I'm on my way to getting the shots I need WOOHOOO!

The professional photographer we hired for our last shots just e mailed me back and suggested this lens.

What's the opinion here if I may ask? Thanks!

http://www.amazon.com …olp_2/002-3491205-9924000

I love mine, either crop or full frame. Fabulous, and on FF it'll make your eyes pop.

Analogsound wrote in post #2278009
...Professional photographer...hired for...last shots...suggested this lens. What's the opinion here...?

From his recommendation I gather your original post question was more focused on interior shots? One Pro photog's recommend is just that. Some people "see" their world as wide angle, some see it normal, some see the world with a magnified limited field of view (telephoto).

I don't do my own backhoe work. It's a smart bargain hiring a guy for $80 an hour rather than getting equipment. Equipment does not make me a skilled operator. The backhoe guy decides what equipment fits work he bids. Likewise hiring a prof photog sometimes is cheaper, better - a bargain for efficient quality work.

The Sigma 15-30mm Sigma lens is a pretty radical special tool. It should not be a user's general use lens, only lens, or likely not a first lens. Shooting interiors, unless you keep it really square to the scene with a double-bubble level on a tripod, you will get stetched perspective distortion margins. There will be barrel distortion visible on 15-17mm wide interior shots. There will be purple color fringing shadows shooting lighting and its reflections off surfaces. These will show in prints and ads. Are you going to clean those images in editing? Be prepared to learn digital darkroom post processing.

I shot a solar energy panel installation. For ultra-wide stuff, I like using a Sigma 15mm fisheye on a crop camera, bubble leveled: http://aesop.rutgers.e​du …s/BlewFamilyFar​mSolar.htm. Look carefully, you'll see little distortion frame left on the fence and frame right on barn, and gentle distortion in the clouds where its attractive. Because extreme wide lenses ALL have color fringing aberrations, I shot RAW and corrected color fringing in PhotoShop RAW as image was created at conversion. There will always be fringing on wide angle lenses and reflective lighting surfaces. I also use a bigger sensor camera for wide angle shots, and shoot at less extreme focal lengths for less edge distortion.

The Sigma is as good an ultra wide angle as you'll find in its price range. Just don't expect magic. You might use this lens at 20mm or 24mm, and taking multiple tripod images and stitching them together in Canon's free software or Photoshop. It's not just camera and lens making the image. Owning an extreme wide angle lens may not enable you to easily achieve what your paid photog provides, that's all I'm saying.

You may wish to compare it with the Tokina 12-24 f/4 lens. I prefer using constant aperture lenses when doing flash (whole 'nother story). The Tokina 12-24 has a conventional lens front, which permits protecting it with conventional filter. It is built like a tank. Similarly priced. Similar performance, similar caveats about color fringing. Probably a little less edge distortion.
You'll need a general use lens to go with that. Plenty of 24-xxx normal zoom lenses for cheap on the market.

Sorry for the rant. Photographers like getting paid, and newcomers don't like frustrating time wasting disappointment. Somewhere there is a happy medium.
Jack

The Sigma on an APS-C is just a regular wide-angle to normal zoom (FF equiv. 24-48 mm). The bonus is what it gives you when you move to FF.

I understand what you are saying Jack and I thank you for your input. But our professional photographer gets a bit more than 80.00 dollars an hour so I'm forced to do something because we have so many shots on a regular basis that we have to try and get. I have only one type of trench to dig in one type of earth so once I learn how to do that, I'll be a digging fool. Also I may have worked a deal out with our photographer and am going to do a custom lighting installation on his property in trade for his help in getting me to where I want to go for taking my own one particular style of picture. Combine his help and the great knowledge and kind folks of this forum why, I'll put my money on that I can pull this off and rather quickly. As I said before, it's not rocket science unless I was attempting to learn how to shoot pictures in all possible situations then I would certainly not approach it in the manner that I am.

From this I might find that I am enjoying it all more than just trying to acomplish something for our business and have a new hobby here, who knows. In the meantime for the cost of a camera, lens and few other minor things I'll be way ahead of the game as compared to the kinds of costs that the pro gets from us for the volume we need.