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Thread started 17 Nov 2006 (Friday) 21:07
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Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM

 
nikmar08
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Sep 23, 2011 15:42 |  #2086

Al - Appreciate you taking out time to provide these tips and info. And nice pics in your flickr profile. EDIT: I'm guessing the ones at 700mm were taken with a 500 f/4 + 1.4TC?

I do use a Benro 2691 Travel Angel with B1 ballhead. Being the hobby photog that I am, I find it difficult to justify expenditure on more gear without fully knowing how actually spending enough time to learn to make the best use of what I already have. To begin with, my observations were more in the context of flash usage along with the better beamer; would you say all the points you made are relevant to that context?

Here's my contribution to this photo archive thread, lest I end up hijacking it with a flash discussion :):

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

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nikmar08
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Sep 24, 2011 11:54 |  #2087

A couple more of these Mockingbirds...

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6169/6178394722_5d0e5623fe_b.jpg

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6178395292_eda945480a_b.jpg

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RonSmith
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Sep 24, 2011 20:27 as a reply to  @ nikmar08's post |  #2088

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6179028233_37be3c699d_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/ronssmith/61790​28233/  (external link)
20110924 a036 (external link) by Ronald S. Smith (external link), on Flickr

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Joe52
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Sep 25, 2011 06:22 |  #2089

IMAGE: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/joe47/IMG_7475cb2.jpg

My 500px (external link)

  
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nikmar08
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Sep 25, 2011 10:29 |  #2090

Ron and Joe - nice shots.


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alfredomora
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Sep 25, 2011 19:55 |  #2091

Whew, I went back to page 90 and looked at every page. Some amazing shots in this thread! Well done guys. I think this lens is my next purchase soon. Forget the 70-200 II + 2x III combo. My only concern is being without IS but I'll just have to practice and invest in a monopod.


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JonK
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Sep 25, 2011 20:55 |  #2092

Nikmar -

My issue with flash photography and birds was that I was using the flash too much. I was doing what you were doing: 0 - +2 EV. The results are that you get the bird, but it looks like it was photographed in an exhibit at a zoo:

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6183769066_b1d2e82026_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/67031861@N08/6​183769066/  (external link)
Flashtest1/800 (external link) by Jon Kensy (external link), on Flickr

That's straight out of the camera. Sure, the bird is sharp but the eye is glassed over and the scene is so fake looking. What I realized you need to do is not substitute a decent exposure with flash. You still need to expose the scene even though your flash is going to hit. If you don't, you end up with that artificially lit look. Compare the photo above to this photo:

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6183248917_77c1951cbb_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/67031861@N08/6​183248917/  (external link)
Flashtest 1/500 (external link) by Jon Kensy (external link), on Flickr

Again, not great, but you can see the difference. The first is a 1/800 shutter and the bird is lit with a strong flash. The 2nd was a slightly slower shutter at 1/500 with less flash - its under exposed but that can be bumped in post some. What I found works well is taking some shots of branches in the same relative situation that you intend to shoot. See what your settings are to get a decent shot, then bring in the fill flash. Again, don't forget that it's for fill, not for lighting the scene. Both shots above were at around noon on a cloudy day - the one looks like its night time because the exposure without the flash on is so dark.

7NE | 7D | 5DII | 16-35/2.8L II | 24/1.4L II | TS-E 24/3.5L II | 50/1.4 | 85/1.2L II | 100/2.8L IS | 70-200/2.8L IS II | 400/5.6L | PIXMA Pro 9500 Mark II
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nikmar08
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Sep 25, 2011 21:20 |  #2093

Jon - thanks for the pointers. I "think" I get what you are saying, time to put these and a few Al mentioned earlier in practice. Just haven't got time sinc my last outing. By the way, do you also use the better beamer? As I am using one, my case may be partly because I'm yet to go over the learning curve of the beamer.


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JonK
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Sep 25, 2011 21:22 |  #2094

I just received mine a week or two ago and haven't had a chance to try it yet. My shots above were with a 580EXII @ 105mm


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nikmar08
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Sep 25, 2011 21:28 |  #2095

I see. As the speedlite thingie is new to me too, I am yet to figure out clearly in my head the meaning of setting zoom to 50mm or whatever other number. I have a 430EX II. Any thoughts or pointers on this topic?


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JonK
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Sep 25, 2011 21:34 |  #2096

nikmar08 wrote in post #13162323 (external link)
I see. As the speedlite thingie is new to me too, I am yet to figure out clearly in my head the meaning of setting zoom to 50mm or whatever other number. I have a 430EX II. Any thoughts or pointers on this topic?

Sure - its easy once you understand. The focal length of a lens covers a certain degree of field of view, right? So what the flash heads do is zoom internally to change the projection of light and its field of view. A 50mm lens can't see what a 24mm lens can in terms of field of view, so there's no use projecting light into the scene when it can't be picked up by the lens. So, in standard settings, the flash will zoom in accordance to the lens being used so if you have a zoom lens you can watch the zoom head in the flash move as you move the lens and meter. Since the better beamer is a given distance from the flash head, 50mm is the "zoom" on the flash head need to hit the lens on the better beamer. The more concentrated the light beam (aka 105mm) the brighter it is. So, someone (the designer) worked out that 50mm works best as it hits the full surface of the better beamer without spilling around the better beamer while also not being too narrow as well.


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nikmar08
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Sep 26, 2011 00:07 |  #2097

With your explanation for the 50mm setting being a desirable value with the beamer, I am able to connect the dots. When I had the zoom set to auto with the 400 lens, the flash would have been setting it to 105mm and throwing off a much more concentrated and powerful beam of light, which the beamer would have been concentrating it further.

Here's a pic from earlier yesterday without the beamer or flash. I metered a part of the tree where I was expecting the bird to be without the bird in Av mode at f/5.6 and got SS as 1/500 with ISO400 for a correct exposure. Then I set these values in M mode and ISO at 640. Surprisingly, this turned out with quite a lot of noise, purely to be attributed to underexposure. Wonder how that happened. Finally, had to do some NR which made this softer than what I would have liked. Shooting birds in tree shades/foliage is really freaking me out as of now.

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6181378081_f08c1faa15_z.jpg

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Silverfox1
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Sep 26, 2011 09:16 as a reply to  @ nikmar08's post |  #2098

^^^^

http://www.naturephoto​graphers.net/tdg0502-1.html (external link)

I primarily only use 50mm with the 580EX ii + Better Beamer and have tried 24mm.

If your shooting subjects out past 15ft. use 50mm, ETTL, AV mode, f5.6, SS1/500 and go -1 on FEC to start with. Just practice in the shade & shadows on a limb or any stationary object. The variable existing ambient light will always vary so you will just have to adjust the flash compensation using the BB. If your within say 8 to 12ft. of your subject you can use 50mm, ETTL, MF, f5.6, and go as high as 1/2000 SS with the BB. Using AV will provide fill flash and using MF on your body the exposure will be corrected automatically in ETTL mode. Remember inside of an 11 ft. distance to subject will require the use of a 20mm extension tube on the 400/f5.6 lens to obtain AF.

The below 2 pics was using AV mode fill flash at around 20 & 30 ft. distances:

IMAGE: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/Silverfox111/IMG_1550.jpg

IMAGE: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/Silverfox111/IMG_1552.jpg

The below was using MF mode around a 9ft. distance:

IMAGE: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/Silverfox111/IMG_2028.jpg

Regards, Ron ;)

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frederiksenp
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Oct 02, 2011 13:34 |  #2099

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6204127981_e24d8ee554_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/vxsarin/6204127​981/  (external link)
Juvenile Greater Rhea (Rhea americana) (external link) by Paul Frederiksen (external link), on Flickr

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icassell
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Oct 02, 2011 15:05 |  #2100

Smart move doing this with your 400, Paul. I made the mistake of shooting an ostrich with my 17-50 and he pecked at it and broke my polarizer! Nice image!


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