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Thread started 18 Nov 2006 (Saturday) 17:56
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ok, so what kinda magic does auto mode have over av mode....

 
Lightstream
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Nov 18, 2006 19:58 |  #16

The 'match needle' gauge in M mode is also dependent on the on-camera metering and their algorithms. So, if you set your meter to evaluative, and shoot the scene in auto, you'll get the camera's take on it. If you then switch to manual, and line up the little scale at the bottom of your viewfinder to exactly 0, you'll get the same equivalent exposure (EV) that the camera would have chosen.

When I use manual I still need to be mindful of which metering mode I use, or ignore the little scale completely and use my own judgement. (sometimes that indeed is easier! Shot on Friday in extreme lighting conditions.. meter was totally thrown)

Anyway back to the OP's problem - consistent 1/60 in auto mode sounds like the flash is popping up. Program AE and AUTO mode tend to set f/4.0, 1/60 wherever possible.

I've spent time in all of the modes, primarily Av, and wouldn't write any of them off outright. Instead I try to figure out what the camera is thinking and how it will react in a given situation - in order to figure out when I should step in and override the camera. I'm comfortable using P/Tv/Av only because I know its behavior and when to change modes or go to manual.




  
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PacAce
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Nov 18, 2006 20:06 |  #17

Stefan A wrote in post #2282595 (external link)
Are your auto shots under exposed? Is the flash popping up automatically when you use auto indoors? Using the camera in auto is essentially using your expensive slr as a P&S camera. When you shoot in Av, you have control over the exposure and you won't need the cheap built in flash (although you may need a tripod). You can get more natural looking shots indoors in Av. Maybe the camera is exposing so dofferently in auto because it is expecting the flash to be used. I don't know, I hardly ever use the flash.

Stefan

I think you it the nail right on the head. I'm pretty sure this is the reason (i.e. the built-in flash popping up) the OP is getting a handholdable shutter speed in Auto (green box) mode but not in Av mode even with a higher ISO setting. No magic here. It's just the camera doing what it was programmed to do in Auto mode. :)


...Leo

  
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nodoubt
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Nov 18, 2006 21:02 |  #18

sandpiper wrote in post #2282511 (external link)
I fully agree with the 'stop using the green box' part, but we do know the connection between ISO, aperture and shutter. That is why we cannot understand why auto is giving f5, 1/60 at 400 iso but Av is giving around f5, 1/30 at 1600 iso. That is a three stop difference in readings pointing at the same subject. This is not a matter of not knowing how they are connected, it is trying to understand what the camera is doing differently to give such different readings.

........exactly.....do​esent make sense....how about somebody else do a quick test inside with the kit lense and report back....this has really got me wondering now......


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angryhampster
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Nov 18, 2006 21:27 |  #19

So IS your flash popping up? You never answered.


Steve Lexa
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twotimer
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Nov 18, 2006 22:13 |  #20

If you read the manual it is doing exactly what it is suppose to. In Aperture Priority the camera meters for available light and use the flash for fill in the automatic modes it meters for the main light source to be the flash. The result is that you tend to have dark backgrounds in the automatic modes as the light from the onboard flash has very limited range.

Gerhard




  
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nodoubt
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Nov 18, 2006 22:20 |  #21

angryhampster wrote in post #2282978 (external link)
So IS your flash popping up? You never answered.

........yes it is............


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nodoubt
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Nov 18, 2006 22:22 |  #22

twotimer wrote in post #2283129 (external link)
If you read the manual it is doing exactly what it is suppose to. In Aperture Priority the camera meters for available light and use the flash for fill in the automatic modes it meters for the main light source to be the flash. The result is that you tend to have dark backgrounds in the automatic modes as the light from the onboard flash has very limited range.

Gerhard

...........makes sense........good lord this photo thing is way more complicated than most would think.....its really all about light isnt it .......


40d....
50mm 1.8...tamron 28-75... ef 70-300 IS ....EF 10-22
manfrotto 3021BPRO
linhof PROFI III ball head
wimberly quick release, with a kirk plate

  
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grego
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Nov 18, 2006 22:22 |  #23

nodoubt wrote in post #2283167 (external link)
...........makes sense........good lord this photo thing is way more complicated than most would think.....its really all about light isnt it .......

It'll start making more sense as you practice more and ultilize these forums.

Eventually you'll never want to use auto, because full auto would be like using a 100 dollar point and shoot.


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sandpiper
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Nov 19, 2006 05:04 |  #24

nodoubt wrote in post #2283158 (external link)
........yes it is............

Ah, well, that solves it. Auto is setting the camera for a flash exposure and Av for natural light.

I assumed that auto would only set for flash if you popped the flash up manually (i.e. 'turned it on') as I have never known the flash come up by itself. Then again of course, I avoid full auto like the plague, because I want to tell the camera what I want, not the other way around, so I am not conversant with the way full auto does things.




  
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sandpiper
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Nov 19, 2006 05:33 |  #25

Lightstream wrote in post #2282653 (external link)
The 'match needle' gauge in M mode is also dependent on the on-camera metering and their algorithms. So, if you set your meter to evaluative, and shoot the scene in auto, you'll get the camera's take on it. If you then switch to manual, and line up the little scale at the bottom of your viewfinder to exactly 0, you'll get the same equivalent exposure (EV) that the camera would have chosen.

When I use manual I still need to be mindful of which metering mode I use, or ignore the little scale completely and use my own judgement. (sometimes that indeed is easier! Shot on Friday in extreme lighting conditions.. meter was totally thrown)

{cut}

I've spent time in all of the modes, primarily Av, and wouldn't write any of them off outright. Instead I try to figure out what the camera is thinking and how it will react in a given situation - in order to figure out when I should step in and override the camera. I'm comfortable using P/Tv/Av only because I know its behavior and when to change modes or go to manual.

I fully agree, I tend to favour Tv to Av (and don't use P) but I am perfectly happy using them for most situations. I will dial in a little compensation when I feel it is appropriate or, when the lighting is particularly awkward, I will tend to meter from an appropriate part of the scene, or dig out the old Weston handheld and do an incident reading, then set the camera manually or use EV compensation if the light levels are varying slightly.

I am never convinced by the argument to use manual 'because the camera meter can't be trusted', as I find that (for reflected readings) it can be just as effective as a hand held so long as you use it properly. Of course, there are situations where it can be fooled but they are usually pretty obvious when viewing the scene and we can correct accordingly. With digital we do at least have the luxury of checking a histogram to help evaluate the scene, then bracketing without the expense of wasted film, if required. I am pretty good at estimating corrections on the spot anyway, because I spent all my formative years shooting trannies for colour, so exposure had to be accurate. For me film was for B&W or snapshots.

Many people who use manual also do it by using the match scale, so are effectively using the cameras meter reading anyway and just going the long way round. This isn't having a go at Liza by the way, I presume that she uses a handheld meter, judging by her comment.




  
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ggw2000
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Nov 19, 2006 13:50 as a reply to  @ sandpiper's post |  #26

I scanned the above thread so I might have missed something that someone said but here's my interpetation of modes when using builtin flash.

Auto: will always use 1/60 second and force lowest aperture for get enough light.
P-mode will also use 1/60th and work the same as auto.
AV mode- as stated it is normally used for "fill flash" and that is why you are getting long exposure times in low light even at wide aperture. But you can overcome this problem and get whatever DOF you want (not always using the lowest aperture). Go into the "custom function settings" and turn on "fixed" speed in AV mode (it's 1/250 on my 30D, don't know what camera your using).
Now you can set the aperture where ever you want it (i usually use around F 6.3 or so) the camera will meter the flash correctly for the situation. Actually works quite well ;) .
Manual mode: set the aperture where you want and set the shutter to around 1/125 second. However, I have found that the flash exposure can be hit and miss depending on the situation (just my opinion).

I use the "fixed" AV mode with flash and adjust the "FEC" if I need to.. Gerry




  
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nodoubt
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Nov 19, 2006 21:35 |  #27

ggw2000 wrote in post #2285630 (external link)
I scanned the above thread so I might have missed something that someone said but here's my interpetation of modes when using builtin flash.

Auto: will always use 1/60 second and force lowest aperture for get enough light.
P-mode will also use 1/60th and work the same as auto.
AV mode- as stated it is normally used for "fill flash" and that is why you are getting long exposure times in low light even at wide aperture. But you can overcome this problem and get whatever DOF you want (not always using the lowest aperture). Go into the "custom function settings" and turn on "fixed" speed in AV mode (it's 1/250 on my 30D, don't know what camera your using).
Now you can set the aperture where ever you want it (i usually use around F 6.3 or so) the camera will meter the flash correctly for the situation. Actually works quite well ;) .
Manual mode: set the aperture where you want and set the shutter to around 1/125 second. However, I have found that the flash exposure can be hit and miss depending on the situation (just my opinion).

I use the "fixed" AV mode with flash and adjust the "FEC" if I need to.. Gerry

thanks gerry........man that worked like a charm....ive got the 350xt and it gives me 1/200th fixed,.........


40d....
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manfrotto 3021BPRO
linhof PROFI III ball head
wimberly quick release, with a kirk plate

  
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Nov 19, 2006 22:32 |  #28

I thought he was talking about P mode at first, so you guys had me try it, in P,AV,TV
in P mode I shifted the exposure to get the same aprature and like wise in TV, all three agreed f11 and 8 sec, no sense in doing this in auto since the flash will be utilized and a whole different exposure is set, always 1/60 and fxx


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grego
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Nov 19, 2006 22:54 |  #29

The P mode is very useful when using strobes. It'll keep your shutter below the sync speed(1/250 or 1/200).


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ggw2000
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Nov 20, 2006 12:42 |  #30

nodoubt wrote in post #2287311 (external link)
thanks gerry........man that worked like a charm....ive got the 350xt and it gives me 1/200th fixed,.........

You're wecome! A lot of people don't seem to realize that you can do it this way. Gerry




  
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ok, so what kinda magic does auto mode have over av mode....
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