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Thread started 27 Nov 2006 (Monday) 18:09
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Ansel Adams @ The Bellagio and on cropping

 
Atomic79
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Nov 27, 2006 18:09 |  #1

I took a little vacation to Las Vegas last week and was lucky to find that The Bellagio was having a showing of some of Ansel Adams work. It was the first time I'd been able to see prints of his work. Nice exhibit if you get the chance to see it.

The funny thing I noticed, on a couple of the prints, was imagining the things I would have heard if I posted them up for review. On one print (image of tree branches/snags in a lake) a couple of the branches and their reflections are just sticking in from the side of the image. I'm sure a dozen people would have said to crop them out. On another just the opposite (image of a tree) where just the tips of the leaves on the sides of the tree where cropped out, I'm sure someone would have said that I cropped it to tight.


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Nov 27, 2006 18:20 |  #2

hmm...if i had 20 bucks to spend for the "art gallery" at the bellagio, i'd check it out.


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DocFrankenstein
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Nov 27, 2006 22:27 |  #3

Adams' work is displaying in the art gallery of ontario right now and I've dropped by on friday. There's a collection of about 120 prints - mostly the smallish contact prints, but a few of the enlargements of the famous pictures.

I have heard so much about the quality of the images... the contrast ranges... the magic of the large format... the gradual subtle tonalities in the print of the great master.

I was disappointed. I've had similar stuff coming out a condenser enlarger and ISO100 135 film and overall it's nothing to write home about.

Seeing that exhibit put me off large format cameras, which I eventually was going to get. I think the largest I'll go is a medium format now.

As for the compositions... the great masters of photography aren't the ones taking the greatest pictures. It's all about connections and marketing.


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gjl711
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Nov 27, 2006 22:38 |  #4

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #2322303 (external link)
...
As for the compositions... the great masters of photography aren't the ones taking the greatest pictures. It's all about connections and marketing.

Its also about timing and context. When Ansel Adams first started displaying his work, it was new and revolutionary. He developed techniques and most people had never seen anything like it before. It's kind of like the movie 2001. When it first came out it was revolutionary as most had not seen anything like it before. But if you look at it can compare it to todays works, it looks primitive in comparison.


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DocFrankenstein
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Nov 28, 2006 00:24 |  #5

gjl711 wrote in post #2322349 (external link)
Its also about timing and context. When Ansel Adams first started displaying his work, it was new and revolutionary. He developed techniques and most people had never seen anything like it before. It's kind of like the movie 2001. When it first came out it was revolutionary as most had not seen anything like it before. But if you look at it can compare it to todays works, it looks primitive in comparison.

I don't beleive that's the case. His whole system is an explanation of basic rudiments of photography - calibration of the negative to the exposure and then of the paper to the negative. All you have to do is balance a few variables. Any mathhead can and did come up with that.

It's the myth of "america the beautiful" that really set him apart. Maybe he just popularized the calibration system for the masses.

But in terms of the technique there probably isn't a single one which hasn't been done before his time.


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gjl711
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Nov 28, 2006 08:58 |  #6

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #2322655 (external link)
....
But in terms of the technique there probably isn't a single one which hasn't been done before his time.

That pretty much true for every invention we have today. The guy getting the credit has a long line of guys standing behind him who got so close but for whatever reason did not have all things line up. Adams was the right guy at the right time. He had powerful friends, he had talent, and he was able to put it all together and make quite a spectacular career out of his photographic ability. Along the way he contributed greatly to the art of photography.


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Nov 28, 2006 09:21 as a reply to  @ gjl711's post |  #7

I have said it before and I will say it again, While I admire Ansel Adam's Photography, I want his publicist.

Until Ansel got a publicist he was just another landscape photographer, albeit a good one.


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rdenney
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Nov 28, 2006 12:20 |  #8

Several things come to mind reading the thread up until now.

One is to be sure that a viewing of Adams's prints really include his prints. The Mural Project images, for example, are owned by the government and have been obtained by many through the Freedom of Information Act. The "negatives" they have are copy negatives that Adams provided to protect his originals, and in some cases are copies of those copy negatives made in response to FOIA requests. The prints made from them generally look like soot and chalk to me. These images are not copyrighted by the Ansel Adams Publishing Rights Trust, and therefore have been reproduced in a variety of ways, many of which appear to me ghastly. The stuff printed under the auspices of the Trust maintain much higher standards of reproduction.

Adams's later prints were larger and stronger in their tonalities than his earlier prints, so you should be aware of when the prints were made in addition to when the exposures were made. Not all gallery showings provide that information.

Bob Ross makes prints from a collection of Adams's negatives under the auspices of the Ansel Adams Gallery in Yosemite, which is owned by the family. These "special edition" prints are so marked, and they are actually beautifully made. They are also affordable enough so that even I own a couple. But they are not Adams's signature prints, and they are not large.

I compared my Special Edition print of Dogwoods with the reproduction in Yosemite and the Range of Light (I have the modern trade paper version in addition to an autographed first edition), and was surprised to discover that the reproduction was sharper. With a loupe, the reason was apparent: The screening process used to make the reproduction created false edges around highlights in rather than the smooth edges of the original. That print was not much larger than the negative. I wonder how much our impression of the sharpness of Adams's images is influenced by seeing them mostly in reproduction. The tonality of that print, however, is amazing compared to small-format stuff.

I viewed the Smithsonian exhibition of Adams's work in 1985, which was a combination of two traveling shows, including very large prints made late in his life, immediately following his death. That exhibition also included works by Stieglitz, Strand, and Weston. The prints profoundly affected me. But the earliest prints did show signs of age--one even had fixer stains. His archival technique improved over time. I also viewed an exhibition of his work at the McNay Art Museum in San Antonio, Texas in maybe 1990. Those prints were smaller and more intimately displayed, and it moved me even more.

We should remember that he was using films like Super XX, which had a very thick base and emulsion and large grain. Only the format size made up for the deficiencies of the film. His one famous 35mm picture, the grab shot of Georgia O'Keeffe, cannot be printed larger than 8x10 without losing its quality.

We should also remember that Adams established a new aesthetic principle, in conjunction with other photographers such as Imogen Cunningham, Edward Weston, and so on. At the time, photographers were using photography to simulate painting, or so it seemed to Adams, and he thought photography should reflect its medium honestly, with sharp images and clean tonalities. This was revolutionary in his day. Those early photos, however, did not as often have the grand scale of his later works, so his rise in popularity cannot be wholly laid at the door of "wilderness appeal". That pictorial approach that he opposed at the time is popular again, and that changes our perspective.

Many younger photographers have picked up where Adams left off, just as Adams picked up where earlier generations (such as Sullivan and Strand) left off, in terms of technique. John Sexton, for example, made prints whose tonalities exceeded Adams's own works, taking the more modern equipment and materials to their limit, but basing it on the principles Adams first codified.

But Adams was singularly successful in understanding the emotion of the natural scene. His description of Yosemite Valley was "earth gesture", which is a particularly artistic way of describing it, at least for those of us who studied art and did gesture drawings. His objective was not mere documentation, but he didn't discount the fact that in his day few had seen what he had seen in the wilderness. His art was motivated by his love of the subject, and we are jaded about such motivations these days, it seems to me. For those of us who have ventured to photograph wilderness as he did, finding that singular vision has not proved to be so easy. That is not about technique but about art. But that doesn't mean every one of his photographs attained to the same high standard.

As to Adams hiring a publicist, he didn't. He had assistants, and he had benefactors. Some of his benefactors were well-placed in the art world, and that did Adams no harm. But he wasn't the only artist trying to court those benefactors. He succeeded because many in the art world were moved by his work in ways they were not by others. That process is just as relevant today as ever. But remember also that Adams didn't benefit from the explosion in prices in his prints that happened starting in the 60's and 70's. He did commercial work right up until that time.

Rick "noting that photography was not considered art and was never displayed in or collected by art museums when Adams founded Group f/64" Denney


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Nov 28, 2006 13:45 |  #9

Thanks Rick "who actually obviously listens more then he talks" Denny. I was about to jump out of my skin. Comparing real silver based images taken when a photographer actually had to know focus, calculate exposure, often created their own papers and films to todays pop-o-matic digital photographs is like saying, "hey, so Columbus sailed off to a new world, crap it's only a 6 hour flight now - it is no big deal". Comparing the level of effort taken and skill required then to what most photographers have today is pure ignorance.

And what is all this crap about the "myth" of America the Beautiful or that Adams was just part of some huge marketing machine. What the hell are they teaching now days. In you even a little sense of historical context, you would realize how just stupid either of those notions were. The early to mid 1900's were an age of a content coming together, people traveling to places that generations before had never done. Images of these "new" places are were highly in demand. Sometimes our younger friends here forget that just 50 years ago it took the average person a week to cross this continent. It was something most never had the chance to do. And it is largely because of these types of images that the National Parks had the support that they did have. It helped people understand what it was they were being asked to fund.

The funny thing is Art is Art, and there is no art that is universally liked by all. It is what it is. It's about emotion. I fully respect someone for having their own reaction to someones work. We are all hopefully a little different. But to say Adams was just a result of some marketing myth building scheme and the man really didn't do anything that hadn't been done before is just folly.

And as to not wanting to use a large format camera because of example shot 70 years ago... you know.... there have been a few advances in emulsions since then. Can you image some of these shots produced now on some of the fine grain emulsions now available. It would truly be night and day.

Thanks Atomic for the post... if I get stuck in Vegas again, I will look it up. I had seen a very nice exhibit of his many years ago at University of Santa Clara.




  
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Nov 28, 2006 14:04 as a reply to  @ Croasdail's post |  #10

I saw this exhibition at the Bellagio when I was in Vegas in August. I've been to Vegas about six times in the past 7 years. Each time the Bellagio had a different exhibition and at no other time was I moved to go in. This time I was thrilled to see they had Adams' work.

I loved it. My wife loved it. My 15 year old daughter spent the most time in there. We waited over a half hour for her to come out. The prints, the quality of the work was nothing short of spectacular, even by today's standards.

As to the original poster commenting on cropping, that is so true. It is just so subjective. I just received a catalogue from the department store Nordstrom's. For those who don't know, that is a high-end store. I'm sure many of us would give quite a bit to be the photographer(s) who shoots that catalogue. I'm sure it pays quite well. More than 80 percent of the shots had the models' heads cropped, arms cropped, etc.

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Nov 28, 2006 14:27 |  #11

MDJAK wrote in post #2324946 (external link)
....
As to the original poster commenting on cropping, that is so true. It is just so subjective. I just received a catalogue from the department store Nordstrom's. For those who don't know, that is a high-end store. I'm sure many of us would give quite a bit to be the photographer(s) who shoots that catalogue. I'm sure it pays quite well. More than 80 percent of the shots had the models' heads cropped, arms cropped, etc.

mark

Why do they do this???? We just received a catalog for ski wear and almost all had their heads cropped and done so in an unflattering way. It's not like they didn't have the room as many of the pics were of skiers in action and there was room below the feet. So to move the pic down just a bit so that both the head and feet are in frame would have been an easy thing to do.


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rdenney
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Nov 28, 2006 15:42 |  #12

gjl711 wrote in post #2325036 (external link)
Why do they do this????

Because it's the clothes they are selling, not the model or the photography.

Rick "minimalism--sheesh" Denney


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gjl711
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Nov 28, 2006 15:47 |  #13

rdenney wrote in post #2325412 (external link)
Because it's the clothes they are selling, not the model or the photography.

Rick "minimalism--sheesh" Denney

Yea, but all I can see when I look at the pics is "Hey, the dude's head is chopped off" not the clothes. :D And what if I wanted to buy a hat. I'd look at the pic and say. "Hey, my head is not that flat, they must not have a hat for me." ;)


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Nov 28, 2006 16:29 |  #14

i saw this exhibit back in oct. i thought it was worth it. i aslo went and saw the bodies exhibit...now that was something!


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Nov 28, 2006 16:50 |  #15

Croasdail wrote in post #2324884 (external link)
Thanks Rick "who actually obviously listens more then he talks" Denny. I was about to jump out of my skin. Comparing real silver based images taken when a photographer actually had to know focus, calculate exposure, often created their own papers and films to todays pop-o-matic digital photographs is like saying, "hey, so Columbus sailed off to a new world, crap it's only a 6 hour flight now - it is no big deal". Comparing the level of effort taken and skill required then to what most photographers have today is pure ignorance.

I'm comparing adams work to modern black/white film. I have a stack of silver halide prints made with "adequate" darkroom technique and they're pretty close to what I've seen of adams.

From what I know - the works were original and a few prints from his early "pictorial" period were provided for comparison. There were signatures: AAdams.

This exhibition, organized by the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, takes a new look at the work of Ansel Adams through approximately 120 images selected from The Lane Collection. Acquired by William H. Lane and Saundra Lane in the early 1960s and 1970s, the Collection encompasses an extraordinary breath and depth of Adams’ work, acquired directly from the artist during a ten year period. Many rarely exhibited prints from the 1920s through the 1970s are presented along with several of Adams’ iconic landscape images – which have made Adams among the few photographers in the history of the medium whose name and work enjoy worldwide recognition.

Organized by the Boston Museum of Fine Arts.

For me - there's no way around it. If proper film development is a crowning achievement of photography, then "they" are right. Photogrpahy is not art.


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Ansel Adams @ The Bellagio and on cropping
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