DPP Raw processing questions

Hi, I've been using DPP (Canon's Digital Photo Professional) for about a year now when I convert my RAW images... so I'm not a total newbie. But I have a couple questions (shooting with digital rebel XT):

1) When I convert and save a Raw image to jpeg at highest quality, why is the file size larger than even the orginal jpeg itself (shooting RAW+Jpg in camera). Sometimes it is twice as large as original jpeg. Higher in-camera compression? Would this mean I would possibly get better quality jpegs if I shot in Raw and batch converted later?

2) Even if I directly convert my RAW image to jpeg without any adjustments, leaving it "as shot" the results are different than camera's JPEG. The original JPEG is more saturated and the color "pops". I'm shooting with parameter 1 which boosts saturation, and color tone... is there an easy way to simulate parameter 1 in DPP? Even when I boost saturation (raw image adjustments) and color tone (rgb adjustment tab) , I can't get the same results as in camera jpeg as far as saturation, etc. It would be nice to see DPP process the image similar to how camera does itself... that would at least give me a starting point, and some reference when making changes to the raw image. (Sometimes the in camera jpeg result is CLOSE to what I want but just needs a little tweaking, and I'd prefer to make those adjustments on HQ RAW instead of Photoshop.)

Thanks for any help you can give me.
David

1. Probably has to do with the shadow detail recovered in raw. You get a lot more with DPP, or any other raw converter for that matter.

2. Again, As Shot doesn't seem to impact the saturation or contrast as much as the Set 1 in camera param. Just boost the sat and contrast in DPP to taste, though I prefer to add sat selectively after raw conversion. I also like a little lower contrast in my pictures, but that's just my preference.

1: More detail (and noise probabely, since NR is off by default); less compression.
2: My guess would be this: Have a look at the color settings in DPP and PS.
Are you by any chance converting to a different color space then the out of camera jpg?
Sounds like AdobeRGB(DPP) vs. sRGB (jpg) and wrong color settings.
I'd think 'as shot' is pretty close to jpg from the camera. (been a while though)

It's all explained here.

Uhhh....yeah. I forwarded it to my seven year old son.

davidcrebelxt wrote in post #2357390
Hi, I've been using DPP (Canon's Digital Photo Professional) for about a year now when I convert my RAW images... so I'm not a total newbie. But I have a couple questions (shooting with digital rebel XT):

1) When I convert and save a Raw image to jpeg at highest quality, why is the file size larger than even the orginal jpeg itself (shooting RAW+Jpg in camera). Sometimes it is twice as large as original jpeg. Higher in-camera compression? Would this mean I would possibly get better quality jpegs if I shot in Raw and batch converted later?

2) Even if I directly convert my RAW image to jpeg without any adjustments, leaving it "as shot" the results are different than camera's JPEG. The original JPEG is more saturated and the color "pops". I'm shooting with parameter 1 which boosts saturation, and color tone... is there an easy way to simulate parameter 1 in DPP? Even when I boost saturation (raw image adjustments) and color tone (rgb adjustment tab) , I can't get the same results as in camera jpeg as far as saturation, etc. It would be nice to see DPP process the image similar to how camera does itself... that would at least give me a starting point, and some reference when making changes to the raw image. (Sometimes the in camera jpeg result is CLOSE to what I want but just needs a little tweaking, and I'd prefer to make those adjustments on HQ RAW instead of Photoshop.)

Thanks for any help you can give me.
David

David,
I experience the same thing as your #2. When I open raw images in rawshooter essentials they look fine (as i shot them) but it begins to automatically process the images and turns the colors very dull. I then need to boost saturation way up. Is this the way it always works? It's really annoying b/c the exposure is good 'as shot' and I would think I only need to tweak them slightly.

René Damkot wrote in post #2357676
1: More detail (and noise probabely, since NR is off by default); less compression.
2: My guess would be this: Have a look at the color settings in DPP and PS.
Are you by any chance converting to a different color space then the out of camera jpg?
Sounds like AdobeRGB(DPP) vs. sRGB (jpg) and wrong color settings.
I'd think 'as shot' is pretty close to jpg from the camera. (been a while though)

Rene:

Thanks for the comments.
I'm actually viewing the Camera Jpeg, the Raw file, and the DPP converted Jpeg file all in Digital photo professional... so there shouldn't be a problem with color space should there?

One thing that complicates getting a Raw file to process the same as Parameter 1 in camera AND in DPP is that the controls are different... the camera I believe only has 4 levels of saturation, and you can adjust satuaration in DPP -4 to +4, and you tone has 4 levels of adjustment in camera, but in DPP tone adjustments is in the RGB tab with -30 to +30 levels of adjustment.

I need to run a check and see what happens if I use parameter 0 or no in camera adjustments, and compare that with the raw file.

I guess I was just hoping for a way to have my computer do the same processing as my camera does, then only tweak the 10% of shots that need it. That way I could shoot RAW ONLY all the time, then batch process my images from DPP. I guess I'll have to continue shooting RAW+Jpeg and eat up card space until I can figure out the settings to simulate the camera output.

My other thought was to have similar color rendition as camera output, but possibly higher quality images by outputing at best quality jpeg using DPP... as I mentioned, jpeg filesize seems to nearly double if processed in DPP compared to the best quality camera file. I have never heard of this being the case though, so please correct me if I am making an incorrect assumption here.

David-
In regard to file size, one of the changes in the latest versfion of DPP (2.2) is that the amount of jpg compression was reduced so that 10 on the DPP scale now represents about 1:3 while 8 is roughly the same as the camera's Fine setting.

Canon has two RAW converters. Zoombrowser is said to produce results identical to the Digic II in-camera processing. DPP's algorithm's seem to be slightly different and it offers more advanced control. I'd suggest you try ZB.

Tzalman:

Thanks for the tip. Zoombrowser does make the jpeg appear almost exactly like the out of camera jpeg. One strange thing though... on the image I tested the out of camera jpeg was 3mb, and processed with zoombrowser at high quality (4) it is 6mb... no changes made by me. If I set it down to quality level 3, image size halves to 1.5mb...

I just wish DPP had the ability to create the jpg close to out of camera's. I doubt I'll be using zoombrowser much... I don't care for its clunky interface, and limited raw handling. Wonder how we can make suggestions to Canon for improvements to their DPP (or do they monitor the forums?)

Still, it is good to know that I COULD (if so inclined) shoot RAW only, and batch converted to create quick jpegs. This way I'd conserve a little memory card space while on big shoots, instead of RAW+Jpeg. Plus (if filesize is any indication) gives less compressed jpegs than out-of-camera... I won't have a chance to look to closesly at that aspect until next week sometime... if anyone else cares to look into that, I'd be interested to know if there is really any noticeable difference between out-of-camera jpeg and a zoombrowser proccessed one.

Thanks again for all your help... and Canon, if you're listening, try to incorporate a way to optionally process RAW files based on in camera settings in DPP (at least as a starting point.)

If you want to make your views heard at Canon, the best way is by writing to Chuck Westfall, their North American spokesman. He is very responsive, both in answering questions himself and in passing comments on to Japan. Use the email link on this page:
http://www.digitaljour​nalist.org/issue0612/t​ech-tips.html