First wedding as prime...first pics post in section.

cdi-ink.com wrote in post #2384068
KA-CHOW!

ROFLMBO! SG1 (sci-fi fan also?) You already know what I think as I commented on your other thread with these same images. Glad for the sales there for you.

Wow. I don't care if you are "just playing around". This is just ... honestly I'm speechless. And people wonder why the full time pros don't want to give feedback any more.

Karen

Karen he was joking.

karensimmons wrote in post #2384465
Wow. I don't care if you are "just playing around". This is just ... honestly I'm speechless. And people wonder why the full time pros don't want to give feedback any more.

Karen

Yes, I was joking. But honestly, I have every right to post what I posted. This entire thread - just about - was riddled with comments about what was wrong with these photos. What people didn't like. What people would have done differently, etc. I agree for the most part and respect all the comments made. I realize that I could always do better. My point to the comment you didn't like was this...at the end of the day, we can be as hard as we want on eachother and hard on ourselves. However, the shot you hate or the shot people say needs cropping, needs fill flash, needs white balance correction, etc. could be the one the bride loves.

So after all that negative feedback and in light of the fact that the bride loves and ordered some of the photos posted, you don't think some humble pie is in order...even if I was horsing around? You don't see how this whole thing is ironic? That it's not somewhat comical?

No I don't. I think that "well the bride liked it and bought it" is a lousy excuse for accepting poor photography. I'm sorry if you find that blunt or harsh, but it's true. Saying that work is acceptable because the client doesn't know the difference or loves a photo simply because it's of her or her family is the ultimate professional cop out. Clients will love bad images of their family many times. That doesn't validate the image and make it good. It just means the client is willing to overlook a bad image in favor of emotional content. People love images all the time that are of their families, their pets, their friends - images that are out of focus, have heads chopped off, have fingers in the frame. But they love those images becuase they are of someone *they* care about or has meaning to them. How much more would they love an image of that person or that thing that was a truly GOOD image? How much happier would they be? And if they hire a professional, don't they have the right to expect images that are better than what your average guy with a camera can take? If a client is paying you to do a job for them, doesn't that client deserves the BEST POSSIBLE effort you can give them rather than, oh well, it doesn't matter becuase they liked it?

This kind of attitude is what is driving down the perception of professional photograpy as a whole. "It's ok if what I shoot is crap and not technically proficient - becuase in the end the client likes it." It's an excuse to never get any better. It's an excuse to be sloppy.

Would it be acceptable if a surgeon did a sloppy job sewing up an incision after your surgery. Sure the sutures that are there are fine and do the job, but another surgeon comes along and says "wow, that suturing is really average - if it had been done better you'd have less scaring". Wouldn't you want to know why the surgeon who did the sutures didn't care enough to take his time and make it better? Or would you just say "eh, it's ok. the patient thinks it looks good and that's what counts."

Karen

sageone wrote in post #2384059
To all your haters of the shot of the flowers with the bride blurry in the background...the bride is including that in her album. Mom ordered two. An oh, the shot of the clutch with the flowers and the shot of the rings on the altar? Also made the cut.

I'm serving humble pie. Tim and others step right up for your mouth full.

Just playing around folks...thanks for all the comments and CC. It'll only make me a better photog.

sageone wrote in post #2385567
Yes, I was joking. But honestly, I have every right to post what I posted. This entire thread - just about - was riddled with comments about what was wrong with these photos. What people didn't like. What people would have done differently, etc. I agree for the most part and respect all the comments made. I realize that I could always do better. My point to the comment you didn't like was this...at the end of the day, we can be as hard as we want on eachother and hard on ourselves. However, the shot you hate or the shot people say needs cropping, needs fill flash, needs white balance correction, etc. could be the one the bride loves.

So after all that negative feedback and in light of the fact that the bride loves and ordered some of the photos posted, you don't think some humble pie is in order...even if I was horsing around? You don't see how this whole thing is ironic? That it's not somewhat comical?

WOW! OK, so overall you did a very good job for your FIRST wedding, and a lot of folks piped up with a lot of suggestions for how to improve next time (i.e. how to become a better, more successful wedding photographer). And you respond - even jokingly - by telling the helpful, REAL professional photographers to go eat humble pie? You just shot your FIRST wedding, and that's your response to folks who have photographed hundreds?

WOW. That kind of attitude is not going to make you many friends in this industry, and "Good enough" will only get you so far. The best thing that's happened to my business this year was not the better gear, or the additional experience, or my higher prices, or even the increase in the consistency of my work - all of these things are great - but the network of other photographers that I have developed is what has made it all possible. I guard my relationships with other professionals carefully, and always respectfully listen to suggestions from other professionals.

I know you're not much of one for taking advice, but mine is that you have a slice of that pie for yourself, and be thankful that anyone took the time out of their busy day to look at your pictures. In the meantime, don't quit your day job just yet!

Don,

You have to take the comments on board and learn a lttle mate. I presume these were some of your favourite images from the wedding - they are not terrible. But there was nothing invalid in what Tim or others said.

Just because the client is happy doesn't mean these are fantastic photos - Karen had a lot of good points.

What did you want from everyone - great shot? They are not great shots in the oppinion of some of the pros here (including myself) - others like them. Photography is subjective.

Your comment about eating humble pie was so out of line.

Congratulations on your first wedding as a main photog.

sageone wrote in post #2358633
........ cc welcome.

sageone wrote in post #2385567
Yes, I was joking. But honestly, I have every right to post what I posted. This entire thread - just about - was riddled with comments about what was wrong with these photos. What people didn't like. What people would have done differently, etc. I agree for the most part and respect all the comments made. I realize that I could always do better. My point to the comment you didn't like was this...at the end of the day, we can be as hard as we want on each other and hard on ourselves. However, the shot you hate or the shot people say needs cropping, needs fill flash, needs white balance correction, etc. could be the one the bride loves.

So after all that negative feedback and in light of the fact that the bride loves and ordered some of the photos posted, you don't think some humble pie is in order...even if I was horsing around? You don't see how this whole thing is ironic? That it's not somewhat comical?

let me start by stating that you asked for cc... and you got lots of cc... the issues is now you don't like the cc you received. The bride may have liked them, so you got away with it this time. Next time you may not , then what?

there are two ways to look at this.. 1: all of the people on here have no idea what they are talking about, and we all should take every possible tip from you on how to take wedding photos from you.. or 2: (which by the way is the right answer) Listen to what is being said, they are invaluable nuggets of information that are being handed out by people whom have far superior skills than you, that at the end of the day are only trying to help you. (for free)

Acting like a spoiled child is a good way of getting no help and making no friends. If you don't want the help then don't ask... keep taking the below average shots, that any one with a point and shoot can do.

one other point ' GROW UP '

as for humble pie, hmm i dont think i will be eating any today, or any other day thanks.

Did I not say I appreciated the comments every gave and will take them into consideration for future shoots? While this is my first wedding, I've shot a ton of sports and portraits and have made some great money doing so. Wedding opportunities have just started coming in - or should I say, I've just started accepting them.

My whole friggin point to this thing was that it amazes me how critical we are of our own work and of each others work and that the client really doesn't see what we see - good and bad. So are we really shooting for our clients or to get approval by other photogs?

And my comment about eating humble pie was a friggin joke...don't like it. Oh well. I guess I need to be serious to be taken seriously. People that really know me would never make comments like the last three above. I welcome cc. I love constructive criticism. I use it all the time in my profession. You can't be in the marketing business for 13 years without eating some humble pie yourself.

Thanks to everyone that posted comments to help improve my shots and photography skills. I have taken them into consideration believe it or not. Much appreciated.

Yours truly,
Mr. Humble Pie.

adding to how ironic this all is...one shot that I wasn't fond of - not posted here - was ordered by a friend of the family's. I almost didn't include it in the proofs. Too funny...

solid coverage

Don,

I think the problem is that no matter how much you say "yes I appreciated the advice" when you follow it up with "but the bride liked them anyway" it seems like you're just negating the first statement. It's possible that you really do appreciate and accept the critique you've gotten, but your posts are coming across differently. Which is what makes it hard to see the "joke" in the repeated comments that we should eat humble pie.

The thing is ... there will always be people who like the images just because they are photos of *their* wedding. They would have loved crappy snapshots from aunt Margaret's throwaway camera, too. As you get better, you're going to find yourself looking at things that the average non-photog consumer gushes over and be saying to yourself "um. no, that's utter crap". And you'll wonder what people are smoking that they can think that such absolutely awful images are something to gush over. I guarantee if you are serious about photography that day will come - and sooner than you think. And I think if you're serious about photography and continue to grow, in 6 months you'll come back to this thread and not only say "wow ... what was I thinking!" - you'll suddenly see what the rest of us were saying.

Trust me. I look at my work from when I was first starting out and I think "I can't believe anyone paid me for that s**t." Heck I look at work from last season and think "What was I thinking?" sometimes.

Take it for what it's worth, ok?

Karen

karensimmons wrote in post #2391495
Don,

I think the problem is that no matter how much you say "yes I appreciated the advice" when you follow it up with "but the bride liked them anyway" it seems like you're just negating the first statement. It's possible that you really do appreciate and accept the critique you've gotten, but your posts are coming across differently. Which is what makes it hard to see the "joke" in the repeated comments that we should eat humble pie.

The thing is ... there will always be people who like the images just because they are photos of *their* wedding. They would have loved crappy snapshots from aunt Margaret's throwaway camera, too. As you get better, you're going to find yourself looking at things that the average non-photog consumer gushes over and be saying to yourself "um. no, that's utter crap". And you'll wonder what people are smoking that they can think that such absolutely awful images are something to gush over. I guarantee if you are serious about photography that day will come - and sooner than you think. And I think if you're serious about photography and continue to grow, in 6 months you'll come back to this thread and not only say "wow ... what was I thinking!" - you'll suddenly see what the rest of us were saying.

Trust me. I look at my work from when I was first starting out and I think "I can't believe anyone paid me for that s**t." Heck I look at work from last season and think "What was I thinking?" sometimes.

Take it for what it's worth, ok?

Karen

I am constantly crapping on my own work...comes from my days as a journalist. I'm never happy with my final results. I know I can always do better. Otherwise, why continue to do it? Improving is part of the fun.

The real issue here is that in the written word you can't hear the sarcasm. You can't hear how things are supposed to sound funny. You read them in the tone your mind tells you it's in. I'm a literal, no frills, happy go lucky guy. But I'm very serious about what I do because people are paying me to do a job and do it to the best of my abilities.

I make fun of situations and myself all the time. That's what I was doing. All the points were well taken and I'm chucking as I write this because I can't believe that this has carried on for three pages. And you're right. I will shoot another wedding, look back at this - not for my humble pie comment - but to see how I improved from the last shoot.

Thanks for the cc, comments, suggestions.