Your thoughts please

After reading the top 2 sticky threads I have an idea of what I would like to charge for my first time out photographing a small family in a park.

The points I picked up out the thread...

Do not shoot for free... this hurts everyone in the business.

Consider the equipment costs, time traveled, post processing, cd...ect.

Consider having them sign a release if I want to use them on my future site for promotional purposes.

I'm sure I am missing something but this is how I am breaking the fee down in my head...

1 hour to shoot $75
1-3 hours to post process the images $50-150
Flat fee for travel in 50 mile radius $25
Disc of photos $5

I will discuss print sizes tomorrow with the client... I do not want to sell the prints or have the photos printed. I will prep the images for print... they can have them printed at a place they choose.
Good or bad idea?

I will retain the raw files and provide the jpgs on disc. Good/bad?

So... with this being said and I'm sure I am missing many things I should take in to consideration... which is why I am asking of the rates total fee is a fair expectation on my part.

Low end... $155 High end $255

Any and all thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ,

Hatch

I would include a few prints in your package as default.
$5 seems a little low on the cd if you spend any time organising them or if you make web sized images for them for just burning them to a cd seems ok.
Put a disclaimer that they are responsible for the print quality of images printed off the CD.

Id reflect it on the price list as CD layout and burning with web sized images and full size. $40-$50
Run them thru a resize action to make the web sized images.

Thank you very much Strmdr for your comments. I will include the disclaimer. Very useful information. Another great idea for the CD. My first thoughts were to just include the shots which would be ready for print... but...making them web ready is a great idea... much easier for them to share with their family.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond.
Hatch

couple more thoughts....

A PS script to batch resize them to 500 pixels and level 7 jpg in photoshop would be perfect for web shots my opinion.
Have 2 folders on the CD web-email fullsize.
You might also looks into slideshow software also and charge extra if they want it as a value add.

Also might want to add that the images are for non-commercial use also. You should be paid more if they are selling them images or using them outside of friends and family.

Over all I like your plan better than selling high priced prints.
Seems more fair to me and you can make good money at it.

Thanks again I've looked through a ton of wedding threads and sites and this is they way many of them build their quotes. Again, being new to trying to make $$$ at this... I figured this would be the least amount of headache...I hope? LOL I want everyone to win if that is possible...I get paid decent...they get a fair rate and a quality product. At least I hope I can pull it off

Would a deposite be a smart move and if so... what percentage and what should I keep for my efforts even if for some reason my work isn't exactly what they might be looking for. I sent over recent shots and they were pleased... but...anything can happen.

Thanks again, Hatch

50/50 is what I would do.
You need to check into your states laws on non-refunable deposits to answer your other question.
imho 100% refund before the cd is delivered, no refund after.
When you deliver the CD go over it with them and have them sign a delivery invoice atating how much they owe and that the images are acceptable and when the money is due.

btw don't forget at least 1 million dollars general liability insurance and errors and omissions insurance.
Don't do business without it.

Do you think you're good enough to charge? Most people build up a portfolio first, to prove to themselves and others they're making a good investment of their $$$

I think everyone has to start at some point.... if I go out and do this for free... I screw the other photographers in the area. I beleive I can photograph this family and produce shots they will enjoy. If they are not happy with the work...they will not pay... I think this is a fair deal. Only thing lost is their time. I gain more practice and will learn from the experience. As far as a porfolio... I brought in a sample album of what I've shot in the past and they liked what they saw. My online galleries are mainly macro/sports...nothing is setup at the moment to advertise/promote me as a business. If this shoot goes well I have another in the works. I guess what I am trying to say...they have seen my work.. they feel they are making a good investment and yes, I do think I am at a point where I can start charging for my work.

Hatch

I like it how you assign 50 bucks an hour for your time.

Just because you have a camera, doesn't meant you have the skill. Do you know posing? Lighting? Do you know how to light different types of faces?

If I were to pay 150 bucks for a family portrait, I would expect some sweet images.

And when you're learning or doing for the first time, you're not supposed to charge.

tim wrote in post #2360668
Do you think you're good enough to charge?

Obviously he thinks he is. The real question is "Is he good enough to charge?" Take a look a his site. I think he is good enough to charge.

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #2362183
Just because you have a camera, doesn't meant you have the skill. Do you know posing? Lighting? Do you know how to light different types of faces?

You didn't look at his site, did you?

***NON HOSTILE RESPONSE… I'm asking the questions...not screaming at the screen
***
What would you think the rate should be? Free? Or, I charge $10 an hour for everything and lose money and undercut/lowball other photographers in the area. How does this help me/or other photographers’?

You are 100% correct... if I bought everything Tiger Woods uses to play golf it doesn't make me a pro golfer... I think I have a good eye for composition...I'm fairly creative... I have many things to learn about lighting... but... I feel I can handle the job which has been presented to me and provide the customer with a quality product. If I can't deliver... they don't pay. Time is the only thing lost... and I will gain more knowledge from the shoot.

Well... I'm going to work hard to give them something they can enjoy and be proud of... if not..no charge from me.

Would a package deal with prints be better for the customer? For me?

I think this is the wrong approach... Shooting for your family as practice is one thing...maybe a couple of friends... This goes back to screwing other photographers and the market in a sense.

My question to you and anyone else who is shooting for $$$ ...when do/did you step up and decide/think you have enough knowledge/skill to start charging for your efforts/work? I have built up enough confidence with my photography and post processing skills...I feel it is time to start charging. I could fail...I could succeed but if I don't try I will never know.


I value your opinion Doc and everyone else who has replied.
I would love to hear your thoughts as well as others.

My main goal is to do the family justice, capture memories they can be proud of...learn from the experience and make a little $$$ for my efforts.

Hatch

I do not mean this as a personal attack in any way. I am simply trying to point out that there is no universal rule.

While I do respect the pros, their position is not set in stone and if the market is not there the jobs "will shift to other industries". There is always equillibrium and it is only natural to charge less before you become established in your market.

It is not only happening in photography - it is happening in every industry. The new businesses undercut the established ones. Some established perish as the result... and they deserve it.

In the end - you're only an individual and can't influence the market to any extent.

The professionals will be always valued because they are available and their results are guaranteed. The people who need the images and have a budget will turn to them.

Another thing is that I can't really advise you at all. I don't know the market and I don't know what your abilities are. I've only seen two pictures of the cowboys on your site and it's not a large enough sample to judge your skills.

On the other hand if you can get someone to pay you 200 bucks per session - I'm happy for you.

When I calculate my costs, I just take 15 bucks an hour. That's the amount I WOULD be making on a job.

No worries Doc…I’m not taking any of this as a personal attack. I think I should have asked more questions and provided more details.

Well.. this is was/is my train of thought. I know I will not cripple the Phoenix market if I were to shoot for free or for cheap. What I want most is to be fair/competitive with my rates for the local market. This is where I made my mistake in the post. The question I should have asked would be… are the rates I posted out of reach or high and am I expecting too much. My thoughts were I could shoot the session for say $15-20 and hour…charge for post processing at the same rate and then try to sell prints or packages. In the end wouldn’t this be about the same rate/price …very close to $150 I would think? I could be wrong… I’m trying to establish a baseline. I would much rather shoot …process…provide the shots to the client and move on. The thought of putting together picture packages or trying to make money off the prints doesn’t appeal to me. Or, am I missing something?

As I mentioned I want to provide a reasonable rate. The prices I originally quoted are not set in stone. This was something I came up with…based on what I would pay a photographer for the job at hand. I’m far from rich… but even at $150 I think there is a fair amount of work/time/knowledge going in to the end product.

Just so you know… the session is outdoors… the client doesn’t want posed shots…candid photos with her family in a natural setting is what she is asking for. I know many factors have to be taken in to consideration to pull the shoot off.

Again…any and all suggestions are appreciated. I posted this here to get an idea of what to expect and what to charge. I haven’t quoted the client…so there is time to come up with a fair deal for everyone involved.

Thanks again,
Hatch
**Thank you RT for the kind words**

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #2362747
When I calculate my costs, I just take 15 bucks an hour. That's the amount I WOULD be making on a job.

$15/hour may be the money in your pocket an employer pays you, but $15/hour isn't the cost to that employer for hiring you... it's considerably more. Everything costs money, not just hourly wage. When someone is self employed and providing their own equipment, insurance, place of business, etc; all these things need to be accounted for when determining prices, otherwise at $15/hour you're probably losing money.

One can't run a business successfully without accounting for the Cost of Doing Business in their pricing.