Frustrated: 2nd shooter

How does one suggest I get some time as a 2nd shooter. I have done some weddings as primary for friends and family, with good results. I really wish to get better, i.e. posing, daily routine, new ideas, and some post-processing and the business side of the wedding profession. I have contacted ( via e-mail) several people. 2 from prior weddings whom I met briefly, and one from a photo forum. No-one seems interested in having a second shooter as they have not responded. To do this job right, experience is paramount....but how does one get this experience? I would think that a second shooter would be helpful to a primary but perhaps not! How can one build a portfolio w/o significant experience? Any suggestions....books can only take you so far!!!

That is EXACTLY what I'm asking and looking for as well. I have not shot any weddings but studied them ad nauseum. I can't wait to shoot a few and help as a 2nd shooter on a bunch. I contacted about 10 different photogs around my area and I have recieved 2 replies for help next summer. We'll see what happens then.

Keep contacting photogs and attached a professional resume as well as a few of your shots. Be considerate and professional and you'll at least get a reply. If it's a "no" just follow up with a kind "I trust you will keep my resume on file for a later date!"


-J

I asked a local guy about that and other things that was shooting his daughter at a church play tonight.
He said he is getting 5-6 requests/resumes a month from people wanting to shoot/work with him he doesnt have the time to even respond to them.

fww he was shooting a:
30d and a fat short L lens didnt ask which one and a small softbox on the flash.

He might just sign up here as I told him about it.

Wow - Where abouts do you live? Certainly not that much interest around here I don't think, which explains the 2 photogs that replied.

For those looking to be a second shooter, I know it's hard to get your foot in the door. I run a successful studio and get calls every week from someone wanting to work with me. I have a regular assistants (2) that I used every weekend.

When I get the call I ask several questions to each of them including their experience level, their equipment selection and then simply talk to get a better understanding of their personality.

If I enjoy our conversation I meet with them to review their portfolio. If that all checks out, I might invite them to a shoot depending on my clients and the event.

There are a number of reasons I pass on people who call me. It may be their appearance, my studio has an image and if they don't match I don't want them around me. I may pass because their experience is so low that they would be in my way, I might also pass if the quality of their work would be more work for me then if they weren't there at all.

Here are some reasons you might not get a call or email back, the photographers your calling on are older and may be intimated by your forwardness, they have been ripped off by an assistance and have sworn them off, or they may just have a huge ego.

I got started by contacting the best photographer in my area and offered to buy him lunch anywhere he wanted.

While at lunch we talked and it naturally turned to business. I asked if he ever needed help. He said no but I was persistent and it turned in to two jobs. He was Nikon and I'm Canon so the relationship didn't work well for his workflow, but we are still friends. I got some great insight into the business and he got a free lunch and some free labor.

If your calling on photographers for help/work only call the BEST in the area. Everyone else will simply wast your time and teach you bad habits.

Good luck!

Im in the midwest, the wedding photography market is over saturated with unemployed or under-employed people trying to make some extra money.

strmrdr wrote in post #2378924
Im in the midwest, the wedding photography market is over saturated with unemployed or under-employed people trying to make some extra money.

Amen to that! And they all undercut professional photographers with their $500 weddings. I'm primarily a portrait and sports photographer and am having trouble breaking into weddings at a price point that will actually make it worth my while. I'm also having difficulty finding an experienced professional wedding photog to shoot with to better learn the artistry and business end of it. All the area pros are inundated with requests from amateurs who want to be second shooters.

liza wrote in post #2379019
Amen to that! And they all undercut professional photographers with their $500 weddings. I'm primarily a portrait and sports photographer and am having trouble breaking into weddings at a price point that will actually make it worth my while. I'm also having difficulty finding an experienced professional wedding photog to shoot with to better learn the artistry and business end of it. All the area pros are inundated with requests from amateurs who want to be second shooters.

lol we are in the same state .....

I'm in the same situation as you guys. I have decided that this is going to be a trial by fire type deal for me. I've started out with portraits and as I am gaining experience my prices are becoming more in line with what I need to charge, so my approach to weddings will be the same. I will be next to free on the front end initially, only charging for the prints on the back end so that they loose no money if they are not satisfied. Those looking for a bargain for a wedding photographer will get one as long as they are okay with my lack of experience. I know that this is contrary to what everyone preaches on here, and I think it's great advice to get experience as a second, but sometimes you don't have that option. I have even heard of photographers making seconds sign a contract that you will not compete with them for so long after you finish working with them. I am sure that plenty of people will disagree with this approach, but the bottom line is that when that isn't an option (I live in a place where there really isn't a huge list of wedding photographers) then you have to adapt and overcome. Besides, anyone willing to accept a photographer for free can't really complain a great deal. I am actually booked for a wedding in June, but that is quite a bit of time to become extremely comfortable shooting in all kinds of light and places. Gotta do what you gotta do! Good luck, to me and you!

Do it on your own. Sink or swim.

Your stuff is better than a lot of stuff that people charge for ... start your own business. Price yourself slightly lower than going rate in your area and give yourself 3 years to go HIGHER than going rate in your area. 2 years of experience will do the trick and put you on a level playing field (IMO).

Post on Craigslist... it usually has a great response rate

The problem with the sink or swim approach is that you can be the worlds 3rd greatest technical photographer and suck at doing weddings.
Its 75% people skill and 25% photography ability.
Can you take charge of a large group in a way that wont offend a bunch of people?
Can you organise a large group of people?
Can you handle complex posing issues?
Do you know how to technically handle mixed groups of people in one photo?
For example in a group of 10 people you have one that is 6'8" who is not the bride or groom, 2 3" tall kids and the bride and groom are 5' tall how do you arrange them?
Hoe do you keep the kids from getting lost and the tall person from overwhelming the image?
How do you handle a group of badly hung over people or even someone who is drunk?
deal with Pushy MOB and family fights and still get the shots your being paid for?

strmrdr wrote in post #2380135
...
For example in a group of 10 people you have one that is 6'8" who is not the bride or groom, 2 3" tall kids and the bride and groom are 5' tall how do you arrange them?
Hoe do you keep the kids from getting lost and the tall person from overwhelming the image?
How do you handle a group of badly hung over people or even someone who is drunk?
deal with Pushy MOB and family fights and still get the shots your being paid for?

Very carefully...

Well, I don't know if I'll be much help here since I learned using the "trial by fire method" back in the '70's. I'm in that oversaturated Midwest area too.

The major work that gave me good practice with solid good photo technique, as well as practice in working with groups of people, was college newspaper photography. Granted, it's not daily big city photojournalism, but I learned a lot on the fly, what got results, what made people happy or pissed them off... it was an excellent school of hard knocks for my first "paying" photo job. I think I got $1.25 for every shot the paper ran.

We also did our own darkroom work, talked to the layout folks, the editors.... it gave me a decent beginners education in essential image work flow and how to work in a production environment with others. I also got to photograph presidential candidates, senators, rock stars and other stage celebrities.

Eventually other students who were getting married saw my work and asked if I'd like to shoot their wedding. I confessed to my TOTAL lack of experience. The said they didn't care: "We like your news work, just pretend it's a news event." So, like Al Gore's invention of the Internet, I invented Photojournalistic Wedding Photography back in the day (don't I wish !).

I realize that available newspaper gigs are pretty scant these days so I suggest the following: do some volunteer shoots. YOUR big advantage now is that other than your time, it costs little. There's no film to purchase, process or print like us old farts had to do way back when. At worst, burn the results on a disk and give them to the client gratis, being thankful for the experience and opportunity. At best make the client pay for the basic cost of some nice prints, with a few thrown in for your own portfolio. More later... my wife has just rung the dinner bell and POTN always takes second chair to her EXCELLENT cooking.... - Stu