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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 15 Dec 2006 (Friday) 09:33
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TMR ­ Design
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Jan 24, 2007 08:14 as a reply to  @ post 2591344 |  #181

Hey Scott,

This is a pretty accurate diagram showing the setup I used for the profile portrait lighting.
I've indicated the area surrounding the subject's right eye that I thought was causing a problem. Obvioulsy I did not come up with a solution that maintained proper positioning for the main light and fill reflector. The main light is closer to the subject than usual because when I pulled it back I was getting a lot of spill and a shadow from the umbrella on the background.
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Jan 24, 2007 11:36 as a reply to  @ TMR Design's post |  #182

Hi Scott,

I decided to set up again and focus on the concept of lighting as I would normally do with the subject facing forward. So I created the look and highlights and then used my fill reflector to control the shadows.
I believe what I have here is better than the original but I am curious to know the specifics of what I was doing wrong and if I came close to correcting some of the problems.
I also adjusted the hairlight and it is closer to the 'B' position from your diagram indicating hairlight positions.
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Jan 24, 2007 13:46 as a reply to  @ TMR Design's post |  #183

Hi Robert
Way better than the first images. This is very good profile lighting and if I understand what you said correctly, you based your placement of lights on what you saw with your eyes first and paid less attention to the physical location of the lights. Bravo! Well done.

Study your image and observe that you have lit what you needed to properly illuminate the mask area of the face. Forehead, nose, cheeks, eyes and chin. You did it! You created the highlight and then controlled the shadow.

So far as the hair light, that is something that you will ultimately have to decide on based on what you see and prefer. I personally enjoy a little more edge lighting on the hair with it further around back of the subject so show the overall shape of the hair against the background.

These are the preferences that give each of us our own personal style. It's just like cooking. Something I do a great deal of. I might prefer a little oregano along with some fresh basil in my red sauce but you might feel it's better with the basil alone. We each have our own uniqe tastebuds but remember, in the business side of professional photography, beauty is in the eye of the checkbook holder.


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Jan 24, 2007 14:03 as a reply to  @ LightingMan's post |  #184

Cool man!
Ok I know what you mean about the edge lighting. I was trying that but I was having trouble having that edge lighting AND having it wrap to the side as I have it in my sample. When I opened the barn doors to allow for that it seemed as if there was so much light on the back of the head. This is something I'm going to work on this evening.
I don't know if the barn doors have anything to do with it but by the end of the week I should have the new doors.


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Jan 27, 2007 06:03 |  #185

This thread has gotten really long so I haven't been able to follow each and every post, but has anyone mentioned anything about hot spots (foreheads, noses, etc) and how to eliminate/reduce those? I can get decent results with my softboxes but not with the umbrellas in that regard...


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Jan 27, 2007 08:29 |  #186

Good point cdi-link.com. I am sure Scott has excellent advice. I usually use PS to sort out these problems but anything that saves time would be welcome. Maybe a separate post?




  
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Jan 27, 2007 08:32 |  #187

cdi-ink.com wrote in post #2608109 (external link)
This thread has gotten really long so I haven't been able to follow each and every post, but has anyone mentioned anything about hot spots (foreheads, noses, etc) and how to eliminate/reduce those? I can get decent results with my softboxes but not with the umbrellas in that regard...

digitaljoe wrote in post #2608456 (external link)
Good point cdi-link.com. I am sure Scott has excellent advice. I usually use PS to sort out these problems but anything that saves time would be welcome. Maybe a separate post?

Yes I think that is a great topic for a seperate post.


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Jan 27, 2007 23:21 as a reply to  @ TMR Design's post |  #188

Dear Robert and others:
The question has arisen about “hot spots” on foreheads, noses etc., etc. and how to control them. This is an excellent question because people rarely attribute this problem to what actually causes it and sadly, most people who teach about professional lighting techniques, rarely even mention it.

The “hot spots” of which we speak are actually reflections called SPECULAR HIGHLIGHTS. The word specular literally means “mirror like” so we are talking about mirror like reflections of our light sources themselves as seen in the subject’s skin. To help understand precisely what a specular reflection is, it helps to understand what a diffused highlight is as well as the other components of light.

Let’s say we have a blue beach ball and we place a light source on one side to light it. Now as we look at it, there are four distinct components of the lighting that we can control and they are all linked to each other in varying degrees.

They are:

DIFFUSED HIGHLIGHT
SPECULAR HIGHLIGHT
SHADOW (also correctly called the “umbra”)
SHADOW EDGE (also correctly called the “penumbra”

The SHADOW of course is the area not lit by the main light source. In portrait as well as other types of photography, we control just how dark the shadow areas of the subject appear by using a separate light source called a fill light. In some cases, a non powered reflective surface is used instead to redirect a portion of the main light back into the shadow areas of the subject to control them.

The SHADOW EDGE or penumbra is that separation line between the diffused highlight and the shadow. It is neither highlight or shadow but rather a transition between the two. When astronauts observe the Earth from space and see the fuzzy line that separates night and day, it is call the terminator. It is precisely the same as the shadow edge created when lighting a portrait but simply on a much more grand scale.

Just how abrupt the change is for this dividing line or SHADOW EDGE is determined by the size of the light source. The larger the light source, the more gradual the shadow edge will be. Smaller light sources create a more abrupt transition between shadow and diffused highlight. Photographers sometimes use the term “harder” to describe the look created by smaller light sources because the shadow edges have a harder look whereas larger light sources produce a softer look to the shadow edges. It is precisely this characteristic that allows photographers to control how a portrait looks by changing the size of the main light source.

The true tonality of the object is called the DIFFUSED HIGHLIGHT and in our beach ball, this is the brightest part of our subject that is lit by our main light source and appears blue. The light that strikes the surface is bounced away in random directions. Just how random is controlled by the SURFACE EFFICIENCY of the object. Surface efficiency refers to how smooth or rough the surface is. A smooth surface such as that of a billiard ball, is said to have a high surface efficiency while a pillow would have a low surface efficiency. The higher the surface efficiency, the more you will be able to see a reflection of the light source itself.

This SPECULAR HIGHLIGHT is controllable by the photographer as to how bright it appears in a photographic image. The key thing to remember is that the brightness level of the specular reflection is always RELATIVE to the brightness level of the diffused highlight. When we affect a change in one, we affect a change in the other.

Now, what are the mechanisms used to control the brightness level of the SPECULAR HIGHLIGHT relative to the DIFFUSED HIGHLIGHT? The answer lies in the nature of what a specular reflection is. A mirrored reflection of the light source itself. The best way to illustrate this is to conduct a test. Let’s pretend that your portrait subject is standing before you, holding a mirror in front of their chest. A mirror large enough for us to easily see a reflection of the light source that is lighting them. Let’s say that we are using a 2 foot square soft box as our light source. We will assume that the surface of the soft box is relatively uniform in it’s brightness levels from corner to corner and edge to edge. This is a feature that soft boxes generally do well at.

Ok, let’s place our light source at a distance of 4 feet from our subject holding the mirror. Now, let’s use a spot meter than enables us to measure the brightness of a specific area of an object. Remember, we are not measuring the light striking our subject (as in an incident reading) but rather the light coming from it. This is no different than being outdoors, and taking a reflective spot meter reading off of the side of a building. We are reading the light reflecting off of that object. In the case of the soft box, the light is emanating from within but the principle is precisely the same.

Ok, let’s take a spot meter reading of our soft box as seen through the mirror. We just point the meter so that the bull’s eye is centered on the soft box that we see in the mirror. We take a reading and make note of it. Now as the subject remains in place, we move the soft box from 4 out to 11 feet. We can still see it reflecting in the mirror being held by the subject but it looks a bit smaller now. Let’s take a new spot meter reading of our soft box as seen through the reflection in the mirror. What do we notice about this reading as compared to the first? They are precisely the same. Why is this? Because the soft box never changed in it’s brightness level. We simply moved it away from the subject. Taking a spot meter reading of several square inches of it’s surface area will yield the same brightness level even though we have adjusted it’s distance.

So now we know that the brightness level of a specular reflection of the light source never changes when it is moved. It just gets larger or smaller. So why then do we have to take a new INCIDENT meter reading to determine our taking aperture anytime we move our light source nearer or further from our subject? This can easily be demonstrated by sitting on the posing stool and observing the size of the light source as someone pulls it away or moves it in closer to you. From the point of view of the subject, if we move the soft box out to 11 feet, it looks considerably smaller than if it is moved in to only 4 feet. At 4 feet, the fact that the box is filling more real estate in front of the subject, is why the subject, now receives more light and we have to adjust our aperture accordingly. Think about opening the curtains for one window in your living room about half way to let in light. Now open the curtains up all the way. More light. Same principle.

Ok, now that we have that figured out, let’s discuss human skin and see how these so called “hot spots” are created. If we looked at our skin under a microscope, we would observe that it is covered with microscopic droplets of oil and moisture. Any liquid has a high surface efficiency like that billiard ball we spoke about earlier. The more oily our skin is, the more surface efficiency and the more we will see specular reflections of light sources on our skin. All those tiny droplets of oil and moisture add up to a reflective surface. More or less depending on just how dry our skin is. This is why women use powder. They are adding material that both absorbs moisture, and also adds to the roughness of the skin thereby reducing the skin’s surface efficiency. The result is more diffused highlight area showing the natural tone and color of the skin and less specular highlights or “hot spots”.

For generations, photographers have asked why African Americans or any darker skin person tends to look more oily than a person with light skin. The answer is quite simple. The specular highlights on the darker skin have a darker background to be seen against. In reality, it is only an illusion of greater contrast. Nothing more than that. Sadly, many photographers believing that it was the right thing to do, moved their main lights further away when photographing people with dark skin. They thought that it would reduce the oily look to the dark skin. Unfortunately it accomplished precisely the reverse effect.

With this knowledge of light, how then can we control effectively just how oily a portrait subject looks with those dreaded “hot spots”? The answer is decidedly simple. Let’s pretend that we have our soft box located at 11 feet from the subject. We can see it’s effect on our subject’s face and we can also see it reflecting in the mirror that the subject is holding. That mirror is nothing more than a larger version of all the tiny mirrors that live on the skin in the form of oil and moisture droplets.

If we take an incident reading of our main light from the position of the subject with the dome of our meter facing the main light, we will have a recommended aperture to set our camera on. Let’s pretend that it is f 4. Let’s set our camera’s lens to f 4 and make an exposure.

Ok, now let’s move our soft box in to a distance of only 4 feet from the subject. We take a new meter reading just as before from the position of the subject with the dome pointing at the soft box. Now what do we read as the recommended aperture? The new reading is f 11. A smaller aperture because we now have three f stops more light on the subject than a moment earlier. We adjust our lens to f 11 and make an exposure. Let’s print both of these images so that the subject’s flesh tones are identical. If both exposures were correctly metered and the aperture’s set correctly on the lens, we should have two identical looking images but with one difference. If you remember, the brightness level of the soft box surface measured the same regardless of its distance to the subject. What this means is that when we stopped down by three f stops, to maintain a proper exposure for the diffused highlights, our side benefit is that we now underexposed all of the specular highlights by precisely three f stops. The soft box that is seen as bright white in the first image, now looks 3 f stops darker in the second image. In like manner, the thousands of tiny specular reflections on the surface of the skin creating those “hot spots” that we don’t want have also been reduced by precisely 3 f stops. Those bright oily looking “hot spots” that are so troublesome on the skin, have been all but eliminated by reducing their brightness level RELATIVE to the diffused highlight by 3 f stops. The brightness of the specular reflections never really changed but because we had to stop down, we reduced the brightness level of the specular reflections.

To sum all this up, larger light sources used closer to the subject will reduce specular highlights relative to the diffused highlights. Smaller light sources on the other hand used further away increase specular highlights relative to the diffused making your subject look more oily.

Other benefits to working with light sources closer to the subject, include far greater control over the amount of main light reaching the background. Simply put, moving your light source in closer to the subject, will actually create less light on the background relative to the subject rather than more which is what many people mistakenly believe.

It all comes down to a few simple scientific principles. If you understand these, it becomes relatively easy to manipulate and control the various elements of light. With this knowledge, you can achieve your photographic goals, and spend your valuable time creating new images, rather than making unnecessary corrections with Photoshop.

I hope this has been helpful.


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Jan 28, 2007 00:48 |  #189

I've taken a few minutes to browse this thread and the information here is outstanding!! Can't wait to read every post and consume all of the great work. Thanks Robert and Scott for the wonderful contribution!!!!


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Jan 28, 2007 01:04 as a reply to  @ tdaugharty's post |  #190

Thank you Scott. I just read your post on hot spots. Great post! You have explained this in a way that really makes sense.


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Jan 28, 2007 02:07 |  #191

Thanks Scott. Good explanation.




  
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Jan 28, 2007 14:25 |  #192

lightingman wrote in post #2611800 (external link)
The best way to illustrate this is to conduct a test. Let’s pretend that your portrait subject is standing before you, holding a mirror in front of their chest. A mirror large enough for us to easily see a reflection of the light source that is lighting them. Let’s say that we are using a 2 foot square soft box as our light source. We will assume that the surface of the soft box is relatively uniform in it’s brightness levels from corner to corner and edge to edge. This is a feature that soft boxes generally do well at.

Ok, let’s place our light source at a distance of 4 feet from our subject holding the mirror. Now, let’s use a spot meter than enables us to measure the brightness of a specific area of an object. Remember, we are not measuring the light striking our subject (as in an incident reading) but rather the light coming from it. This is no different than being outdoors, and taking a reflective spot meter reading off of the side of a building. We are reading the light reflecting off of that object. In the case of the soft box, the light is emanating from within but the principle is precisely the same.

Ok, let’s take a spot meter reading of our soft box as seen through the mirror. We just point the meter so that the bull’s eye is centered on the soft box that we see in the mirror. We take a reading and make note of it. Now as the subject remains in place, we move the soft box from 4 out to 11 feet. We can still see it reflecting in the mirror being held by the subject but it looks a bit smaller now. Let’s take a new spot meter reading of our soft box as seen through the reflection in the mirror. What do we notice about this reading as compared to the first? They are precisely the same. Why is this? Because the soft box never changed in it’s brightness level. We simply moved it away from the subject. Taking a spot meter reading of several square inches of it’s surface area will yield the same brightness level even though we have adjusted it’s distance.

Hi Scott,

Can this test be done without having a spot meter attachment on my light meter. I can measure incident and reflected light but the reflected light attachment has a 54° spread.


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Jan 28, 2007 15:58 |  #193

With that much spread it might be difficult but you can easily walk up to your light source and take several reflected readings at different distances so you can see that the readings will always be the same. This is provided that the light on the surface is uniform. The basic idea is easily illustrated using a candle. Get it up close to the camera. Say a foot away. Find the correct exposure. Let's pretend it's f 4 at 1/60. Now, take 5 more images on those very same settings each with the candle 6 inches further away from the camera than the last image. The only difference you will see is the change in size. The candle will be the same brightness level in every one. It has to be. It's always the same brightness. Same principle exactly. Distance controls how much light reaches the subject. It does not however change the brightness of the light source. That's the critical principle you have to remember. Once you do, then controlling those specular highlights become child's play.
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Jan 28, 2007 19:49 as a reply to  @ LightingMan's post |  #194

I love doing these little tests because it really lets me visualize things. I always understood this concept and had already applied it many times when I metered a shot and then changed camera position and knew I did not need to meter again to shoot.

I did this test at 1/60s and f/4.5. In the first image the candle is 12 inches from the camera and in each successive image the candle was moved 6 inches further away until the candle was 42 inches from the camera. To my eyes the candle is not changing brightness at all.

This test clearly demonstrates the principle that is stated in the above post by Scott.

Distance controls how much light reaches the subject. It does not however change the brightness of the light source.

.


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Jan 29, 2007 09:14 as a reply to  @ TMR Design's post |  #195

So far I have loved following this thread with demonstrations of a lot of stuff I knew, but did not always apply correctly, realize or could explain to others.
very helpful.

My circumstances are a bit different though in that I have a fixed amount of time, have to have a set of at least 12 images in different poses in less then 2 hours showing a model in her best light. I also sometimes do sets which require 300 images in which I have 4 to 5 hours to get those. Both of these include changes of costume further reducing shooting time. The solution I have is to set my lights for good light with an area of effect of about 4ft x 4ft box the model(s) can work in. The only time I adjust my light is from standing to kneeling/laying down poses, I lower the lights. I don't have time to reset the lights perfectly for every pose, especialy given that each model looks better or worse in certain poses so we try as many different ones as time allows.

I am always looking for better ways of lighting to give a better look, but so far this seems to be working well for me.

Main: high right, aprx. 45 degree off center line, giant softbox f5.6. the top of the softbox is almost touching the 12 foot ceiling and it is angled down the leading edge is about 2-3 feet in front of the model ground distance, with the center point 5-6 feet from the model (I can't get it closer wihtout shrinking the box or having it appear in the photos).

Fill high left, aprx. 30 degree off center line, large Octobox f2.8. This one is not quite as high, but the center is about 1 foot higher then the center of the Giant softbox. About the same distance from the model for the front panel as the main's front panel

Backlights, 2x usually f5.6 - f8 (f5.6 for darker skin) each on opposing sides aprx 120 degrees off centerline. about 6 feet from model. both use umbrellas (one side is a shoot through, one is reflected - reason has to do with space available more then anything else)

And as needed a snoot or honeycomb grid on a fifth light typically around f4.

So that is my lighting so far. Happier with it then I was last year, but still not fully happy with it.

Note: when I am doing just a single portrait or an advert shoot with a specific pose in mind, I operate completely differently and am fairly happy with the results to date, but then I can spend the time to get the light closer to perfection before starting.


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