The Dark Side

So I'm going to be starting an apprenticeship soon with a local pro photog. The idea is to put a few weddings/events/etc behind me and then possibly branch out on my own if I feel I'm ready.

Anyway, I have another thread here in these forums asking about which proper body I should look at for my budget (my 300D will just not cut it).

So I was talking to a co-worker about it and he says, "I'm going to bring my Nikon D200 in on Friday for you to take a look at and I guarantee you you'll buy a D200." Being that I've been a Canon guy for 14 or so years now, that's a pretty cocky claim.

I gotta say though people, I may just have to pull the trigger. Some points:

1) Even though this is a 1.5 crop body ... the viewfinder is a full frame viewfinder. None of that 60% smaller viewfinder junk you find in the Rebel and XXD Canon lines ... a full size viewfinder (one of the main reasons I've been wanting a 5D).

2) The controls are laid out very well. It's a little tough for me to get used to since I've been used to Canon for so long, but it's obvious that Nikon has put a bit more thought into their ergonomics than Canon has.

3) Butter Shutter. Moreso than the full frame viewfinder, this is what puts me in awe about this camera. It's like the difference between the trigger on a Glock and the trigger on a custom made 1911 .... LEAGUES apart. I've felt the trigger on the 300, 350, 400, 20D, 30D, 5D, and 1D Mark II .... they all pale in comparison. The trick here is that on the Nikon, while there's a "stop" in the trigger travel for the "half-way" point .... there is no subsequent end "stop" to actually take the picture. There is a smooth, progressive movement of the shutter-button until all of a sudden ... "Click", you hear the sound. By there not being an extra "stop" (for lack of better word) to overcome, there's no additional pressure necessary and no induced camera shake becuase of it. Seriously, this is frickin huge. This is the equivelent (compared to my 300D) of a 1 to 2 stop IS for me. Dry firing this camera ... there is no trigger induced shake. I don't know how many times I can say it before ya'll start getting PO'd at me, but this is so frickin huge.

Well, that's about it. The body is well balanced, but then again so is the 1-series Canon's and 5D. At $1339 new .... I'm impressed. I may just convert. Even the Nikkor 50mm 1.8 is in an entirely different world of quality over the Canon 50mm 1.8.

This was not meant as a Canon bashing post and I hope it doesn't get taken as such, as I said, I've been a Canon shooter for 14+ years ... I never expected to even like the D200 much less consider switching to it.

Bill

Bill Ng wrote in post #2433861
Butter Shutter

Can you spread it on toast ?

neil_r wrote in post #2433875
Can you spread it on toast ?

I don't know ... but I can't believe it's not butter =)

Bill

Bill Ng wrote in post #2433861
3) Butter Shutter.

Mmmm, butter shutter.

If you want to do weddings and events, you'll want a 5D for better and easier wide shots. It also has 2 stops cleaner iso than the d200. That means that iso400 on d200 is same image quality as iso1600 on 5D.

Rent a 5D and see what you think before you just try someone's d200 and then have nothing to really compare it against aside from "holding" a 5D in a store.

Bill Ng wrote in post #2433861
..... Butter Shutter.

I know what you mean, I still use my old F100 and the shutter release on that is soooo silky smooth...

Pressing the shutter as a source of camera shake????? It would take a lot to convince me!!Both are good products with different feels...depends on personal preferences. I never thought you could pry my Olympus OM4T away...but olympus clearly lost the digital SLR game. Also depends on how much you have in equipement that needs changing. Good luck, you can't go wrong with either.

So the D200 is a good camera.. The question you need to be asking yourself is "Will I ever find a Nikon forum as cool as POTN?".

I'm thinking no.. Choose wisely.

BrandonSi wrote in post #2434310
So the D200 is a good camera.. The question you need to be asking yourself is "Will I ever find a Nikon forum as cool as POTN?".

I'm thinking no.. Choose wisely.

This is probably true.

Bill

jcpoulin wrote in post #2434154
Pressing the shutter as a source of camera shake????? It would take a lot to convince me!!

Um, yeah. Do this. Turn your camera off. Put a lens on, something in the 100mm focal length or longer area. Looking through the camera .... "dry fire".

Tell me it doesn't move the picture. This goes back to my countless posts on proper technique. More people need to be concentrating on what they're doing when they're taking the picture. There's trigger control, body positioning, breathing techniques, and dietary habits to consider that will all affect how much a person shakes.

Ask any competitive handgun or rifle shooter how important it is that the trigger be smooth and precise.

Bill

Hellashot wrote in post #2433921
Mmmm, butter shutter.

If you want to do weddings and events, you'll want a 5D for better and easier wide shots. It also has 2 stops cleaner iso than the d200. That means that iso400 on d200 is same image quality as iso1600 on 5D.

Rent a 5D and see what you think before you just try someone's d200 and then have nothing to really compare it against aside from "holding" a 5D in a store.

Agreed, the 5D definitely has a huge advantage in the noise arena. Problem is, for the price of a 5D body I can get a D200, Nikkor 18-200 VR, SB800 flash, and a couple of 4Gig compact flash cards. I can deal with a little noise.

Bill

jcpoulin wrote in post #2434154
Pressing the shutter as a source of camera shake????? It would take a lot to convince me!!

Mount your camera on a tripod at night, aimed at a street, and with a longish exposure. Your goal is to just pick up the light trail of a passing car, without blowing it out. When a car comes by, press the shutter. Then do the same thing only using a remote release. Look at the beginning of the light trail; you should see the difference if the car lights aren't overexposed.

Hey, it's your $$.
Whenever someone asks me what camera they should get, I tell them: best choices are Canon or Nikon. I reccomend Canon - I can vouch for their quality.

Evidently the shutter button difference is of a great importance to you... I went for lower noise. So go for whatever you think is best...

gerolamo wrote in post #2434439
Hey, it's your $$.
Whenever someone asks me what camera they should get, I tell them: best choices are Canon or Nikon. I reccomend Canon - I can vouch for their quality.

Evidently the shutter button difference is of a great importance to you... I went for lower noise. So go for whatever you think is best...

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lower noise. I lust after a 5D like no one else I know ... but I completely pulled away from that dream after handling a D200 for no more than an hour.

I wanted a 5D for no other reason than the full frame viewfinder. As an Elan 7N shooter, the cropped viewfinder in my 300D is like owning a Porsche GT3 and being forced to drive a Ford Crown Vic 2 days a week. Although I like the results of what I get when shooting with my 300D, I never actually look forward to shooting it.

I had hopes that a 20D would fix that when they came out. Another gripe I have with my 300D is the pitifully slow picture review time, horrible card write speed, and useless buffer (WTF is with 4 RAW pictures then wait 20 seconds??). The 20D fixed all of that and as I played with it I thought, "Yeah, this could work". But within 20 minutes I realized ... nope, I NEED a full-frame viewfinder. This is why I've been considering only the 5D and a 1Ds Mark 1.

But .... I can get the full frame viewfinder, I can get what I am certain is the best shutter button I've ever laid an index finger on (and that's saying something because my Elan's shutter is sweet), I get well thought-out ergonomics, and I can get it all for $1300. I have to go to a 5D in the Canon line for that.

As far as the noise, yeah, noise sucks, but noise works for me as well. As a predominant film shooter, noise was an everyday part of life and as more and more magazines and newspapers move to digital, I find myself missing the "grain" of an ISO 800 film occasionally.

These are some low-light shots I took this past weekend of my son and his new 6'2" blonde girlfriend. I went a little extreme on the post-processing for some of you, but regardless, I like the overall result including the grain:

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Can't say much about camera choice as I just got the 5D, and am still learning.

But as a photo consumer, I would not buy those photos. The first one is great, but in the last three the noise is too distracting to me. If you can make it less with the post processing, I would consider doing that. This is said IMHO, I prefer sharp, crisp photos.

BTW,

Nikon D200:

http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/nikond200/
Canon 30D/20D:

Canon 5D:

http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/canoneos5d/

Bill Ng wrote in post #2433861
Even the Nikkor 50mm 1.8 is in an entirely different world of quality over the Canon 50mm 1.8.

The 50 costs more than 100 dollars. I'd hope its put together better.


I have access to a D200. Fine camera, but layout is all about preference. There is no better. I actually found the ergonomics of the camera not as pleasing, and found my hand feeling sore when shooting sports with it. I still liked it, but those were my observations.