Canon 5D Mk II

lostdoggy wrote in post #2503384
This sounds like the patent clerk that decided to close the patent offie because he believed that all that can be invented have been invented and no new patent is necessary.

Not quite -- he's invoking perfectly logical market dynamics. The market has to be there for the 5D if Canon is going to throw R+D money into improving it. The 5D is a camera that is really hard for Canon to earn money from. It will never have volume sales like the rebels and 30D, and it will never have the premium pricing and 'pro quality' markup of the 1-series without being a flagship camera.

And there's no way a successor to the 5D will be sold for cheaper than the 5D's price -- it will either be a little tweak and sold for the same price, or it will be a big tweak and more expensive.

But whatever Canon does, people here will complain about it either way.

Ah - I have a much better understanding of your circumstances now . I can see your logic. How did the 350D fare in the Sahara?

AdamJL wrote in post #2508603
......I'll be doing some extreme travelling in the near future to Icey climes and jungles, and after taking my 350D into the Sahara a little while ago, I know how easy it is for a camera to suffer at the hands of the elements.......

sapearl wrote in post #2509012
Ah - I have a much better understanding of your circumstances now . I can see your logic. How did the 350D fare in the Sahara?

It took good pictures, but good lord, the sand hated that camera... and my tripod... and my camera bag... and my lenses

Still.. it worked and that's the most important thing!

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AdamJL wrote in post #2509850
Still.. it worked and that's the most important thing!

Great shot!

Beautiful photograph Adam - I love the tonal gradations. The darker foreground lightening into the distance gives the image a tangible sense of depth. In no way is this a flat image... I feel like I can walk into the distance. - Stu

DrPablo wrote in post #2508607
Not quite -- he's invoking perfectly logical market dynamics. The market has to be there for the 5D if Canon is going to throw R+D money into improving it. The 5D is a camera that is really hard for Canon to earn money from. It will never have volume sales like the rebels and 30D, and it will never have the premium pricing and 'pro quality' markup of the 1-series without being a flagship camera.

And there's no way a successor to the 5D will be sold for cheaper than the 5D's price -- it will either be a little tweak and sold for the same price, or it will be a big tweak and more expensive.

But whatever Canon does, people here will complain about it either way.

Again the patent clerk holds true. Maybe today or yesterday its not feasible for a company to produce a product and be able to make money on it but tomorrow is a different day. For example PS3 and XBOX360, their respective manufacture takes a pounding everytime one is sold, from what I hear about $100 to $200 maybe even more. But tomorrow the console manufacture will more then recover that cost in another associated product, games. What Canon is selling is a commitment in a system not just a body. So even if canon takes a lost on every 5D they sold, which I doubt very much, they'll make it back on lenses and flashes and grips that they sell in the future. They will also know that once your'e commited to the EOS system you'll more then likely buy another and another. Just like the crack dealer knows.

lostdoggy wrote in post #2510569
...What Canon is selling is a commitment in a system not just a body. So even if canon takes a lost on every 5D they sold, which I doubt very much, they'll make it back on lenses and flashes and grips that they sell in the future. They will also know that once your'e commited to the EOS system you'll more then likely buy another and another. Just like the crack dealer knows.

I agree. I also think that Canon knows that they HAVE to continue to provide a mid-priced camera between the ~$1000 Rebels and the ~$7000 1 series. Even if there was an extremely low profit margin for the 5D I think they wouldn't want to lose this market for exactly the reasons you stated.

lostdoggy wrote in post #2510569
Again the patent clerk holds true. Maybe today or yesterday its not feasible for a company to produce a product and be able to make money on it but tomorrow is a different day. For example PS3 and XBOX360, their respective manufacture takes a pounding everytime one is sold, from what I hear about $100 to $200 maybe even more. But tomorrow the console manufacture will more then recover that cost in another associated product, games. What Canon is selling is a commitment in a system not just a body. So even if canon takes a lost on every 5D they sold, which I doubt very much, they'll make it back on lenses and flashes and grips that they sell in the future. They will also know that once your'e commited to the EOS system you'll more then likely buy another and another. Just like the crack dealer knows.

True, but I can sell my equipment tomorrow and jump to Nikon if I wanted and they would of lost a few more lens purchases from me in the future. Lower your profit margin gawd dahmit!

They should have the Costco mentality. Sell them by the pallet at cost plus 5% and instead of making 30% on 100 cameras, they will make 5% on 1000. At the same time putting their name all over the world many times over.

I think they can do better on the price, its not even a pro model and its not weather seald. How much do orings cost, $0.05 each?

Anyways, I have decided that my next will be a 40D (will have to live with 1.6") as I have tried out a Nikon this weekend and don't really like the feel of them. So I will remain with Canon and swollow all the cr*p they dish out.

gdl357 wrote in post #2511120
True, but I can sell my equipment tomorrow and jump to Nikon if I wanted and they would of lost a few more lens purchases from me in the future. Lower your profit margin gawd dahmit!

Do you think that by moving over to Nikon is a good idea??? It took Nikon 3 years to replace the D100 and to this day Nikon has nothing to compete w/ the Canon 5D. Canon have 1Ds/1D MKII/n where as nikon has D2x/h both crop sensors.

With 5D selling at or about $2k after rebate I believe that is a reasonable price by comparason the Nikon D200 is $500 more then the 30D and performs poorly by comparason to 30D in high ISO above 400.

I was at the counter looking at this guy buy a camera for his wife.

The salesman put a xti and a d80 on the table. Guess what? They walked away with a complete Nikon kit. One look in the viewfinder and they were sold. Supposedly it is bigger and clearer.

So don't forget, consumers don't care about all these technical specs that only pros understand. Its what they saw in the viewfinder that convinced them.

So what if Canon is the only one that has FF, consumers won't give a _hit. Nikon could very well take the market if the want. All they have to do is give better rebates than canon and people will swarm over. It's not the 10% pro camera sales that will keep Canon alive.

If the NEW 5D would be $2000, I would buy it. Other than that, they just lost a sale because they are playing on the fact that RIGHT NOW they are ahead of the game. Afterwards, when they have competition they pull out their good pricing and beg us to buy. Why not do it now.

Thx

lostdoggy wrote in post #2510569
Again the patent clerk holds true. Maybe today or yesterday its not feasible for a company to produce a product and be able to make money on it but tomorrow is a different day. For example PS3 and XBOX360, their respective manufacture takes a pounding everytime one is sold, from what I hear about $100 to $200 maybe even more. But tomorrow the console manufacture will more then recover that cost in another associated product, games. What Canon is selling is a commitment in a system not just a body. So even if canon takes a lost on every 5D they sold, which I doubt very much, they'll make it back on lenses and flashes and grips that they sell in the future. They will also know that once your'e commited to the EOS system you'll more then likely buy another and another. Just like the crack dealer knows.

So we're both right in a technical sense.

You're just making an optimistic rationalization, and I'm just being a cynical curmudgeon.

We have no idea what will happen.

Thanks Punisher & Stu

lostdoggy wrote in post #2511237
Do you think that by moving over to Nikon is a good idea??? It took Nikon 3 years to replace the D100 and to this day Nikon has nothing to compete w/ the Canon 5D. Canon have 1Ds/1D MKII/n where as nikon has D2x/h both crop sensors.

THe D200 is a reasonable competitor to the 5D. Massively lower price point, but it's a great camera. 1.5 Crop and ISO performance aside....

AdamJL wrote in post #2512140
THe D200 is a reasonable competitor to the 5D. Massively lower price point, but it's a great camera. 1.5 Crop and ISO performance aside....

Here's how the two compare head to head. I'm no Nikon lover, but the two cameras are not exactly leagues apart and the D200 has some clear cut advantages. I think the 5D is obviously the better camera with respect to the image quality of any given shot, but that doesn't translate to all camera features (and certainly not to price). In this comparison they also hamstrung the D200 by using a better lens on the Canons (the 50 f/1.4) than on the Nikon (the 50 f/1.8 ) and it's hard to know whether to attribute IQ differences to the camera or the lens.

http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/nikond200/pa​ge25.asp

DrPablo wrote in post #2513387
Here's how the two compare head to head. I'm no Nikon lover, but the two cameras are not exactly leagues apart and the D200 has some clear cut advantages. I think the 5D is obviously the better camera with respect to the image quality of any given shot, but that doesn't translate to all camera features (and certainly not to price). In this comparison they also hamstrung the D200 by using a better lens on the Canons (the 50 f/1.4) than on the Nikon (the 50 f/1.8 ) and it's hard to know whether to attribute IQ differences to the camera or the lens.

http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/nikond200/pa​ge25.asp

Except for the buffer and 1 or two other features, the D200 smokes the 5D. Could you image their next model... Look at the PRICE! what a beut!