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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 28 Dec 2006 (Thursday) 19:22
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30D/580EX question(s)

 
adammazza
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Dec 28, 2006 19:22 |  #1

Hi,

I just got a this flash unit over the holidays and just have a few questions. I've been reading through the flash bible along with all my manuals which has definately helped, but the one thing I'm not real clear on is the best approach for simple indoor snapshots.

In the simplest case, I got a flash so that I could have a usable shutter speed without having to use a tripod. I mainly shoot in AV mode. I understand that AV/TV/M all meter for the background, so of course I am still seeing the same slow shutter speeds. It seems like my best approach to start with is to go to manual, set a shutter speed of 200 and an apperture I want, then basically play with the FEC until I get what I'm looking for. Is this the right approach to start with?

Thanks

Adam


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Curtis ­ N
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Dec 28, 2006 19:26 |  #2

adammazza wrote in post #2456937 (external link)
It seems like my best approach to start with is to go to manual, set a shutter speed of 200 and an apperture I want, then basically play with the FEC until I get what I'm looking for. Is this the right approach to start with?

Works for me!


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Mr. ­ Clean
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Dec 28, 2006 19:30 |  #3

That would work for sure! A flash meter would be a cool tool, but not necessary.


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PacAce
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Dec 28, 2006 19:37 |  #4

Mr. Clean wrote in post #2456976 (external link)
That would work for sure! A flash meter would be a cool tool, but not necessary.

A flash meter? With the 580EX? Since the OP is using FEC to adjust the output of the flash, it's safe to assume that he is using the flash in ETTL (auto) mode. That being the case, a flash meter is not going to do him any good. :)


...Leo

  
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Mike ­ R
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Dec 28, 2006 19:54 |  #5

adammazza wrote in post #2456937 (external link)
Hi,

I just got a this flash unit over the holidays and just have a few questions. I've been reading through the flash bible along with all my manuals which has definately helped, but the one thing I'm not real clear on is the best approach for simple indoor snapshots.

In the simplest case, I got a flash so that I could have a usable shutter speed without having to use a tripod. I mainly shoot in AV mode. I understand that AV/TV/M all meter for the background, so of course I am still seeing the same slow shutter speeds. It seems like my best approach to start with is to go to manual, set a shutter speed of 200 and an apperture I want, then basically play with the FEC until I get what I'm looking for. Is this the right approach to start with?

Thanks

Adam

I agree it is a good starting point.When I got my 580EX I used manual f/8,1/125sec and practiced with the FEC.


Mike R
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cgratti
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Dec 29, 2006 00:12 |  #6

I set my camera to FULL MANUAL, set the flash to manual 1:1 take a shot and go from there. Usually after 2-3 shots I have it set to where I want it.



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PacAce
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Dec 29, 2006 00:52 |  #7

cgratti wrote in post #2458080 (external link)
I set my camera to FULL MANUAL, set the flash to manual 1:1 take a shot and go from there. Usually after 2-3 shots I have it set to where I want it.

If you use the distance scale at the back of the flash to determine your starting point, you'll be able to get it with 1 or 2 shots. ;)


...Leo

  
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TMR ­ Design
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Dec 29, 2006 01:13 |  #8

adammazza wrote in post #2456937 (external link)
It seems like my best approach to start with is to go to manual, set a shutter speed of 200 and an apperture I want, then basically play with the FEC until I get what I'm looking for. Is this the right approach to start with?

I'm still relatively new to flash and lighting but that is what I did at first and got great results.


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adammazza
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Dec 29, 2006 19:43 |  #9

Thanks, this seems to be working well for me. Switching to manual with 1:1 definately seems to be too powerfull for what I've been shooting.

Is there anyway to tell what the flash is actually firing when it fires in ETTL II mode? I'm not seeing it in any exif data?

As a side note, I was pleasantly surprised to see that I can shoot at 10mm with no vingetting with the 580 and wide angle screen. I guess in the manual when it says 14mm they are referring to 14mm on a FF camera.

thanks

Adam


Canon 5Dm3, Fuji X100T, Fuji X-T1, Fuji X70
Canon 70-200mm L F/2.8 IS
Canon 24-105mm L F/4.0 IS
Sigma 35mm F/1.4, Sigma 85mm F/1.4
Fuji 16mm F/1.4, Fuji 35mm F/1.4, Fuji 56mm F/1.2, Fuji 16-55 F/2.8

  
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PacAce
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Dec 29, 2006 22:46 |  #10

adammazza wrote in post #2461863 (external link)
Thanks, this seems to be working well for me. Switching to manual with 1:1 definately seems to be too powerfull for what I've been shooting.

Is there anyway to tell what the flash is actually firing when it fires in ETTL II mode? I'm not seeing it in any exif data?

As a side note, I was pleasantly surprised to see that I can shoot at 10mm with no vingetting with the 580 and wide angle screen. I guess in the manual when it says 14mm they are referring to 14mm on a FF camera.

thanks

Adam

The good thing with setting the flash to manual mode is that you can control exactly how much power it is going to output (within the constraints of the flash itself, of course). If 1/1 is too strong for your needs, you have several options available to fix that. You can use any one of these options or a combination of options.

Option #1 is to decrease the power output, like to 1/2, 1/4, etc. depending on how strong 1/1 is. If you have the flash head pointed straight ahead, you can use the distance scale on the back of the flash to tell you what output you should set the flash to. For any given power output, aperture, ISO and flash zoom position combination, there will only be one distance that will be optimally lit by the flash. And that is the distance that is displayed on the distance scale. If the distance you see on the distance scale is farther than the actual distance of your subject, you will need to decrease the power output some more. Keep checking the distance scale as you decrease the output and stop when the distance shown on the distance scale is very close to your flash to subject distance. It doesn't have to be dead on. Close enough is fine. BTW, the camera has a tendency to go to sleep mode so you will need to half-press the shutter button every once in a while to keep the camera awake and talking to the flash. The flash needs to know from the camera what the aperture and ISO are set to so that it can calculate the distance.

Option #2 is to adjust the aperture. If 1/1 is too strong, you can decrease the aperture while checking the distance scale on the flash, the same way it was done with Option #1. When the distance on the scale matches your flash to subject distance, the aperture has been set to properly expose the subject.

Option #3 is to adjust your flash to subject distance, if possible. The farther the subject, the more flash power you will need. And the closer the subject, the less you will need.

Option #4 is to adjust the ISO. .

These options assumes that you are using direct flash. If you are going to use bounce lighting, then you will need to take the flash to bounce surface to subject distance into account as well as the 1 to 2 stops loss of light from bouncing. It's not an exact science when using bounce but with practice, you'll be able to get close enough to only require a little tweaking after chimping the LCD screen.

It may not always be practical to shoot with the flash in manual mode, but it doesn't hurt to learn how to use it and give it a try just in case. You never know when it could come in handy. :)


...Leo

  
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adammazza
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Dec 29, 2006 23:37 |  #11

Thanks Leo, I agree learning how the underlying theory works is definitely the way to go. When I do use ETTL, is there anyway to see what power setting the flash was at when it fired? Either through exif information or some other mechanism?

Thanks

Adam


Canon 5Dm3, Fuji X100T, Fuji X-T1, Fuji X70
Canon 70-200mm L F/2.8 IS
Canon 24-105mm L F/4.0 IS
Sigma 35mm F/1.4, Sigma 85mm F/1.4
Fuji 16mm F/1.4, Fuji 35mm F/1.4, Fuji 56mm F/1.2, Fuji 16-55 F/2.8

  
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Jim ­ M
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Dec 30, 2006 00:11 |  #12

You guys are sure making this hard for simple indoor snapshots. Try setting the camera to manual for the aperture and shutter speed you want, set the flash to ETTL, and shoot away. I often use 1/200 sec at f/5.6 or f/8 indoors if I want to light completely with the flash. You do want to keep the shutter speed at or below the maximum synchronization speed, which is 1/250 with the 30D.

Option two – set the camera to P, Flash to ETTL, shoot away. That will set the camera to 1/60 at f/4 or a smaller f/stop if there is too much light. I only use manual as noted above so I can get a smaller f/stop.

The take home lesson here is that the flash will figure the proper exposure even if the camera is set to manual.




  
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PacAce
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Dec 30, 2006 00:15 |  #13

adammazza wrote in post #2462846 (external link)
Thanks Leo, I agree learning how the underlying theory works is definitely the way to go. When I do use ETTL, is there anyway to see what power setting the flash was at when it fired? Either through exif information or some other mechanism?

Thanks

Adam

No, unfortunately, there isn't any way to get at that info directly from the camera. You can use a flash meter to determine the power output the camera used to fire the flash but I'm not sure how practical this information would be to you. Why do you want to know?


...Leo

  
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cdifoto
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Dec 30, 2006 00:18 |  #14

I usually just to ETTL mode on flash, FEC up or down as needed (same metering theory as using the camera's meter for a non-flash scene...ie + for lighter, - for darker), camera in M somewhere around ISO400 1/80ish, f/whatever I want. As long as you're not allowing the camera to go above 2 stops underexposed, camera shake isn't an issue so 1/focal length doesn't really apply.


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adammazza
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Dec 30, 2006 00:31 |  #15

PacAce wrote in post #2462949 (external link)
No, unfortunately, there isn't any way to get at that info directly from the camera. You can use a flash meter to determine the power output the camera used to fire the flash but I'm not sure how practical this information would be to you. Why do you want to know?

I'd be curious to know what the power settings were in ETTL so I could start to understand some good starting points if I switched to manual.

thanks

Adam


Canon 5Dm3, Fuji X100T, Fuji X-T1, Fuji X70
Canon 70-200mm L F/2.8 IS
Canon 24-105mm L F/4.0 IS
Sigma 35mm F/1.4, Sigma 85mm F/1.4
Fuji 16mm F/1.4, Fuji 35mm F/1.4, Fuji 56mm F/1.2, Fuji 16-55 F/2.8

  
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30D/580EX question(s)
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