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Thread started 15 Jan 2007 (Monday) 10:19
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Building a kit for low light, any advice?

 
bacchanal
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Jan 15, 2007 10:19 |  #1

Well, 1st post. Sorry to be ‘that guy’, but it’s another ‘what should I buy’ thread.

Situation
I’ve had my 30D and 50 f1.4 since October (first dslr coming from a powershot S30). I primarily shoot small/dark concerts where at times f1.4 barely gets me by, and occasionally shoot larger/brighter venues where f2.8 and up are useful. I’m doing this as a photographer with credentials (or as a friend of the band at smaller shows), and I usually try to place myself at the corner of the stage. I have learned not to shoot as a member of the crowd (it just ruins the mood).

Ideally I’d like to have a wide fast lens that I could use in very crowded/dark settings. Unfortunately, this lens doesn’t exist for the 30D (closest thing being the 24L). I also need a little more range on the long end for larger shows and the 85 f1.8 or 100 f2 seem like the way to go for that.

Another option that I have considered, is to get a 2.8 zoom and use it at smaller shows with my 580EX and off-camera shoe cord…but this would only be done at the type of shows where the crowd/bands wouldn’t care about the flash (aka drunken rock binges).

So my choice seems to be get a wide 2.8 zoom, which would be great for brighter shows and everyday use, but probably not useful at small/dark shows without the flash (where I would really like to be able to use the 17mm). In this situation I’d just live with my 50 1.4 on most occasions for the small/dark shows, but I’d probably be better outfitted for everyday use and for larger shows. Or, should I bracket my 50mm with two more fast primes (giving me speed at the widest possible range, but sacrificing range on the wide end).

I’m considering 5 possible lens sets that are semi-within my budget. I really don’t want to spend much over $1000 right now. At the moment I’m leaning towards Set 1 with the possibility of maybe adding a 28 f1.8 in the future. Prices are roughly based on BH, but I’ll probably be looking to go used to save a few bucks/stay within by budget.

So my question is, is there any set that stands out as a good value for my intended use…considering that I already own the 50 1.4? Also I’m not sure what is more important to me yet between the extra 1/3 stop of the 85 1.8 or the extra 15mm from the 100 f2. I’m thinking the 85 might have a slight edge as the more versatile, more hand hold-able lens. Another note, I’m not considering the Sigma 30 f1.4 on purpose.

Thanks for your time…

Set 1 - Tamron Zoom/Canon Prime mix
Tamron 17-50 f2.8
Canon 50 f1.4
Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $790-$840
Pros: Value, Range, Size/weight
Cons: No USM with Tamron, No 'fast' lens below 50mm
---------------
Set 2 - All Canon Primes
Canon 28 f1.8
Canon 50 f1.4
Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $740-$790
Pros: Value, Size/weight, Speed at widest focal range
Cons: No wide lens, lens switching
---------------
Set 3 - All Canon Zoom/Prime mix
Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS
Canon 50 f1.4
Put off until later - Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $1000 initially $1340-$1390 total
Pros: IS/USM on 17-55, versatility of 17-55
Cons: Cost, less range initially, No fast lens below 50mm, flare/dust issues of 17-55
---------------
Set 4 - All Canon Zoom/Prime mix 2
Canon 24-70L
Canon 50 f1.4
Put off until later - Canon 100 f2

Cost $1200 initially $1590 total
Pros: Build quality of 24-70, range of 24-70 for concerts
Cons: Cost, less range initially, No fast lens below 50mm, Gap below 24mm
---------------
Set 5 - All Canon Primes 2
Canon 24L
Canon 50 f1.4
Put off until later - Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $1200 initially $1540-$1590 total
Pros: Fast apertures, decent range when 85 or 100 is added.
Cons: Cost (24L worth it?), short range initially, Gap below 24mm, lens switching


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aparmley
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Jan 15, 2007 11:00 |  #2

bacchanal wrote in post #2544703 (external link)
Well, 1st post. Sorry to be ‘that guy’, but it’s another ‘what should I buy’ thread.

Situation
I’ve had my 30D and 50 f1.4 since October (first dslr coming from a powershot S30). I primarily shoot small/dark concerts where at times f1.4 barely gets me by, and occasionally shoot larger/brighter venues where f2.8 and up are useful. I’m doing this as a photographer with credentials (or as a friend of the band at smaller shows), and I usually try to place myself at the corner of the stage. I have learned not to shoot as a member of the crowd (it just ruins the mood).

Ideally I’d like to have a wide fast lens that I could use in very crowded/dark settings. Unfortunately, this lens doesn’t exist for the 30D (closest thing being the 24L). I also need a little more range on the long end for larger shows and the 85 f1.8 or 100 f2 seem like the way to go for that.

Another option that I have considered, is to get a 2.8 zoom and use it at smaller shows with my 580EX and off-camera shoe cord…but this would only be done at the type of shows where the crowd/bands wouldn’t care about the flash (aka drunken rock binges).

So my choice seems to be get a wide 2.8 zoom, which would be great for brighter shows and everyday use, but probably not useful at small/dark shows without the flash (where I would really like to be able to use the 17mm). In this situation I’d just live with my 50 1.4 on most occasions for the small/dark shows, but I’d probably be better outfitted for everyday use and for larger shows. Or, should I bracket my 50mm with two more fast primes (giving me speed at the widest possible range, but sacrificing range on the wide end).

I’m considering 5 possible lens sets that are semi-within my budget. I really don’t want to spend much over $1000 right now. At the moment I’m leaning towards Set 1 with the possibility of maybe adding a 28 f1.8 in the future. Prices are roughly based on BH, but I’ll probably be looking to go used to save a few bucks/stay within by budget.

So my question is, is there any set that stands out as a good value for my intended use…considering that I already own the 50 1.4? Also I’m not sure what is more important to me yet between the extra 1/3 stop of the 85 1.8 or the extra 15mm from the 100 f2. I’m thinking the 85 might have a slight edge as the more versatile, more hand hold-able lens. Another note, I’m not considering the Sigma 30 f1.4 on purpose.

Thanks for your time…

Set 1 - Tamron Zoom/Canon Prime mix
Tamron 17-50 f2.8
Canon 50 f1.4
Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $790-$840
Pros: Value, Range, Size/weight
Cons: No USM with Tamron, No 'fast' lens below 50mm
---------------
Set 2 - All Canon Primes
Canon 28 f1.8
Canon 50 f1.4
Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $740-$790
Pros: Value, Size/weight, Speed at widest focal range
Cons: No wide lens, lens switching
---------------
Set 3 - All Canon Zoom/Prime mix
Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS
Canon 50 f1.4
Put off until later - Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $1000 initially $1340-$1390 total
Pros: IS/USM on 17-55, versatility of 17-55
Cons: Cost, less range initially, No fast lens below 50mm, flare/dust issues of 17-55
---------------
Set 4 - All Canon Zoom/Prime mix 2
Canon 24-70L
Canon 50 f1.4
Put off until later - Canon 100 f2

Cost $1200 initially $1590 total
Pros: Build quality of 24-70, range of 24-70 for concerts
Cons: Cost, less range initially, No fast lens below 50mm, Gap below 24mm
---------------
Set 5 - All Canon Primes 2
Canon 24L
Canon 50 f1.4
Put off until later - Canon 85 f1.8 or 100 f2

Cost $1200 initially $1540-$1590 total
Pros: Fast apertures, decent range when 85 or 100 is added.
Cons: Cost (24L worth it?), short range initially, Gap below 24mm, lens switching

Well, you can get the 17-55 IS at $930 at BHP with PSNOV code. So thats under budget. I love my 17-55 lens. I'd seriously consider this lens. I wouldn't go with the Tamy - you'll need a lens that doesn't hunt in low light and is lightning fast with AF. I agree the lens choices have to be tough for this kind of thing. being able to hand hold at extremely slow shutter speeds might help, but not with the motion of the band so care would have to be used in deciding when to shoot - i.e. when you could get the head sharp and not worry about the periphreals blurring. . . (arms, fingers, hands, bras flying on stage - that kind of thing). I'd probably try to find away to add the 28 1.8 as well, for those times 2.8 just can't cut it.

But, I'm not a concert photographer - I really don't have the best understanding of whats in your best interest. I'm just a 17-55 owner that is extremely happy with this lens. I'd imagine this has to be a tough decision though, fast, versitale, dependable - either way you look at it = $,$$$ Best of luck!


Switched to Nikon . . . Thanks to all of you that made my sale a success! Enjoy your new gear!

  
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MCTuomey
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Jan 15, 2007 11:09 |  #3

Isn't the only way to decide your question through actual trial? Why not stop thinking, just buy one of your alternatives (used, so you can re-sell with the least loss), and shoot? Your pictures will tell you what works. Keep what does and sell what doesn't.

And you'll have the side benefit of being able to play with a lot of good gear ...

love your username, btw


mike

a couple of canon bodies and a few good lenses

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René ­ Damkot
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Jan 15, 2007 11:14 |  #4

An other option:Add a Sigma 20/1.8 to set 2 and maybe replace the EF28/1.8 with a Sigma 30/1.4.
Otherwise, I'ld go for Set 3.


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ed ­ rader
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Jan 15, 2007 11:22 |  #5

I primarily shoot small/dark concerts where at times f1.4 barely gets me by, and occasionally shoot larger/brighter venues where f2.8 and up are useful.

i'd start with the 17-55....f2.8 will only be useable if the lens has IS.

and then add the primes of your choice. my choices would be 35 1.4 and 85 1.8.

ed rader


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bacchanal
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Jan 15, 2007 11:50 |  #6

MCTuomey wrote in post #2544899 (external link)
Isn't the only way to decide your question through actual trial? Why not stop thinking, just buy one of your alternatives (used, so you can re-sell with the least loss), and shoot? Your pictures will tell you what works. Keep what does and sell what doesn't.

And you'll have the side benefit of being able to play with a lot of good gear ...

love your username, btw

thanks on the username, I suppose it's fitting given my subject of choice :rolleyes:

...and I love the idea trying stuff out, but I don't have anywhere to rent from locally, and I've never been the type of person to just buy and return stuff, but maybe that is just a part of life with lens shopping. Oh yeah, in my area there is one local camera store and it basically charges MSRPs, so they aren't really an option. Maybe I could quickly befriend some more experienced local canon shooters.

Anyway, It seems the consensus so far is that I should give the 17-55 a go, and fill out my kit with primes as I can afford them. I think I would be able to live with that, as the 50 1.4 has been great for me so far, and I can always fall back on it in just about any situation. The only thing that worries me about the 17-55 is the flare issue. I've seen some pretty bad examples of flare around, and I know I'll have many situations where I'll have stage lights in or near the edges of the frame...then again I know there are concert shooters using this lens. Is flare an overblown issue just like the dust thing? I'd use the hood of course. I don't want to get into a huge debate about this lens, but if anyone has any experience with the 17-55 and stage lights, I'd like to hear it.

I really do appreciate the replies


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Steiglitz
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Jan 15, 2007 15:50 |  #7

Best solution: Go All Fast Primes...get a 2nd body too if you can, to hang off another prime lens to reduce changes. Faster aperture will give you more convenience and flexability then a fast zoom.


Gear is essential, but often has little to do with composition, pictures, and art...Alfred Steiglitz :lol:

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Jan 16, 2007 03:54 as a reply to  @ Steiglitz's post |  #8

well, if you notice your choices carefully, you are pretty much dead set on a 50/1.4 and a 85/1.8 or 100/2. your only problem is between the 28mm or a 17-50/55mm zoom.

i'd say get either set 1 or 2. or rather the tamron 17-50mm or 28mm.


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bacchanal
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Jan 16, 2007 07:24 |  #9

Jaetie wrote in post #2549012 (external link)
well, if you notice your choices carefully, you are pretty much dead set on a 50/1.4 and a 85/1.8 or 100/2. your only problem is between the 28mm or a 17-50/55mm zoom.

i'd say get either set 1 or 2. or rather the tamron 17-50mm or 28mm.

Well I already own the 50 1.4, and it is a pretty useful FL for my needs, so it is going to stay.
I just picked up a 28 1.8 from the marketplace (I think it may have belonged to mr. rader at one time), so I guess I'm going with #2. I think I'll add a 100/2 so I have the range if I need it.
I figure I'll primarily rely on two primes sets of the 28 and 50 or the 50 and 100 depending on the gig (of course I'll carry all three with me). I feel like this is a pretty safe move as I can pick up both the 28 and the 100 for under $700 used, and I'll be able to put them to good use. Actually I could add a used 17-50 and still be really close to $1000, but convincing my wife that I need two lenses was hard enough...3 just isn't going to happen right now...I've tried explaining... I'll be a little shortchanged (longchanged?) on the short end for now, but with these three lenses I think I'll have my bases covered, and I'll be able to take my time, save my money, and find out what I really want...that and take a lot of pictures of course.


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