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Thread started 06 Feb 2007 (Tuesday) 15:04
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Portrait Lighting & Controlling Light : Barn Doors - Part II

 
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TMR ­ Design
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Feb 06, 2007 15:04 |  #1

The original thread with a question about using barn doors on powered strobes turned into a great thread with tons of information, tutorials, diagrams and examples. I've decided to continue any lessons and challenges here in this thread and I'll start things off with the last challenge from Scott (lightingman).

lightingman wrote in post #2649664 (external link)
HI Robert:
I have a new challenge for you. It is based on one of the most common problems inexperienced photographers encounter as a result of not yet understanding the science of light. Here is the scenario. The photographer photographs a full length bride on black seamless paper. Rather than the background appearing as black, it looks decidedly gray in the photographs. This all stems from lack of independent control over each area within the scene.

The challenge:
Create a portrait (head shot) using black seamless and using the science of light, create a uniform background that ranges from 18% gray to maximum black.
Show me a series of images each with identical lighting on the face and hair but with the background ranging from 18% middle gray to max black in half stop increments.

The goal here is to teach how to maintain control and accurately predict what your background will look like even before you have made an exposure.

Although I did get some help I never really got the answers to my questions and still had to do some thinking to solve the problem. I knew how to lighten a dark background and isolate that from the subject and the lighting created for the subject but I wasn't exactly clear on what Scott wanted and I did not know how to know where the heck 18% gray was....BUT, I knew that if Scott was asking for this that he knew I had the means to do it and figure it out. Wilt helped a bit but honeslty between using EV numbers and percentages of reflected light, I really was not getting it.

OK, I knew that the way to get a dark color to appear lighter is to add light, and I knew that I could get enough light on the black seamless to have it appear gray, so I had to figure out where 18% gray was and use that as my lightest image in the series. The only thing I could come up with that made any sense was that I know when I look at a histogram I see 5 distinct regions which I believe represent a 5 stop dynamic range, going from shadow (left side) to highlight (right side). I also know that when I shoot a gray card (which should be 18% gray) it appears smack in the middle of the histogram. So that tells me that if 18% is right in the middle of a 5 stop range then it would be 2.5 stops down to black or 2.5 stops up to white. That also told me that there would be 6 images in the series ranging from 18% gray down to black in half stops. If my logic is correct then it also tells me that black is 2.5 stops less than the taking aperrture, which is metered for 18% gray.

Assuming all this is correct then here is what I did.
I set up for a portrait with my main light behind a diffusion panel, a reflector as fill, hair light with barn doors, and placed the background light directly behind the subject, perpendicular to the background and parallel to the ground to get the most even lighting without creating gradients.

Once I had my main, fill and hair light set up I metered the shot, pointing the meter at the main light from the subject's position and got a taking aperture of f/16. Based on that, I knew that I needed a reading of 2.5 stops less than that, or f/5.6 + .5 to achieve black and that if the background metered the same as the taking aperture then that would be my 18% gray background.

So that's where I started, by metering the background at the background, pointing the meter at the background light and setting the power on that strobe until I metered f/16. I took that shot and then adjusted the power until I metered f/11 + .5, f/11, f/8 + .5, f/8 and f/5.6 + .5 and took a shot at each setting. This gave me 6 shots, in half stops, ranging from 18% gray down to black.

I've attached the images I shot and a diagram of the setup. Nothing else changed from shot to shot other than the exposure for the black seamless. All other lighting, taking aperture, shutter speed and ISO remained the same throughout.

I believe I was successful but the only thing I can see is that the background is not 100% uniform. I did try a few different positions for the background light and got maximum coverage and even lighting with the light directly behind the subject. If there is a way to get a completely uniform background then I would love to know how it's done. I had thought about not using the hair light and trying to light the background more evenly with a second light but I figured I would post and start here before making changes that might not be necessary or correct.
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Feb 07, 2007 01:38 |  #2

I am going to take a wild guess at Scott's challenge. First set up the main light, the model and with the background at 18% gray. Then without changing the power of the main light, progressively move the background 1 stop further back until max black.


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Feb 07, 2007 07:08 |  #3

jl_moped wrote in post #2668343 (external link)
I am going to take a wild guess at Scott's challenge. First set up the main light, the model and with the background at 18% gray. Then without changing the power of the main light, progressively move the background 1 stop further back until max black.

Hi jl_moped,

I'm not sure I see how you've taken the challenge. First, you don't indicate how you arrived at 18% gray and then you say to move the background 1 stop further back until max black. I don't understand that statement. Are you moving the background or adjusting the background light? and Scott was asking for a series of images in 1/2 stops, so I can't say I understand your method.


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Feb 07, 2007 07:15 as a reply to  @ TMR Design's post |  #4

I can't believe that no one caught it...my logic is flawed. I'm comparing apples to oranges by taking incident readings and then expressing it in terms of percentage of reflectivity to adjust and and make exposures.
I may have achieved the desired result in the imags but the method is not correct.
I'm thinking that I should be taking a reflected reading from the background at the background light position rather than at the actual background, but I am still a little baffled as to how I identify 18% gray. The meter does not display percentage of reflectivity and I can't find anything that shows me how to convert or calculate percentages.


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Feb 07, 2007 10:43 |  #5

Hi Robert,

I am very new at studio lighting, so I don't claim that I understand this well or have the right technique. At the moment, I don't even own any lighting. I have just rented a set of M600 for the weekend to play with. Let me further explain my answer.

Set up the light, model and background. use a 18% gray card to meter the backgroup. Use that f-stop reading from the light meter to set up the camera exposure. If I understand the use of the light meter correctly, the measurement would give you a 18% gray. Note the location and distance of the backgroup. Take the first picture, this is the starting point of 18% gray. Then move the background back 1.4 feet back to get 1 stop darker. Then move it 2 feet back from the starting location to get 2 stops darker. Then move background to 2.8 feet back for 3 stops, and so on.

I may be totally off base, but never hurt to guess the answer :)


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Feb 07, 2007 10:52 |  #6

jl_moped wrote in post #2669660 (external link)
Hi Robert,

I am very new at studio lighting, so I don't claim that I understand this well or have the right technique. At the moment, I don't even own any lighting. I have just rented a set of M600 for the weekend to play with. Let me further explain my answer.

Set up the light, model and background. use a 18% gray card to meter the backgroup. Use that f-stop reading from the light meter to set up the camera exposure. If I understand the use of the light meter correctly, the measurement would give you a 18% gray. Note the location and distance of the backgroup. Take the first picture, this is the starting point of 18% gray. Then move the background back 1.4 feet back to get 1 stop darker. Then move it 2 feet back from the starting location to get 2 stops darker. Then move background to 2.8 feet back for 3 stops, and so on.

I may be totally off base, but never hurt to guess the answer :)

Hi again jl_moped,

I understand you may be starting out but I don't think you read the challenge carefully. If I am using a roll of black seamless and Scott really has no idea of where and how it is mounted, against a wall or not, I do not think that the methodology would be to be moving the background. If that were the case then the experiment can't be performed because the seamless is mounted on a wall. The subject and associated lighting would not be moved either because as close as I could approximate it, the position and exact lighting would not be replicated from shot to shot. There would be too much variation. If you were using a meter that measured a 54° degree arc for reflected light and you wanted to meter your 18% gray card, where would you place the card and where would you meter from?
Also, I'm not sure why you keep making reference to full stops when the challenge clearly states that the images are to be in 1/2 stops.
Nothing wrong with a good guess but I don't think you have solved the challenge either.


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Feb 07, 2007 11:26 |  #7

I believe 18% grey is 2 stops brighter than black. So what I would so is overexpose my background by 2 stops as a reference point then use the sliders on the background strobe to get my other shots - the Bees are marked incrementally. The main, fill, and hair stay the same.


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Feb 07, 2007 11:30 as a reply to  @ cdifoto's post |  #8

Hmm 2 stops lighter than black. That doesn't sound right. Then again, what are you calling black? One could easily look at the last 2 of my original images and think that they are both black. Either way, 2 stops lighter then the lighter of the two does not give me an image that looks even remotely like my gray card, which is supposed to be 18% gray.


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Feb 07, 2007 12:01 |  #9

TMR Design wrote in post #2669865 (external link)
Hmm 2 stops lighter than black. That doesn't sound right. Then again, what are you calling black? One could easily look at the last 2 of my original images and think that they are both black. Either way, 2 stops lighter then the lighter of the two does not give me an image that looks even remotely like my gray card, which is supposed to be 18% gray.

2 stops lighter than your background when properly exposed, assuming your background is a true black. Aim your background light at your background. Take your handheld meter and get a reading as the strobe lights it up (without the other strobe lights on). That's your true (NOT UNDEREXPOSED) black. 2 stops brighter than that should be 18% grey.


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Feb 07, 2007 12:22 |  #10

cdi-ink.com wrote in post #2669997 (external link)
2 stops lighter than your background when properly exposed, assuming your background is a true black. Aim your background light at your background. Take your handheld meter and get a reading as the strobe lights it up (without the other strobe lights on). That's your true (NOT UNDEREXPOSED) black. 2 stops brighter than that should be 18% grey.

OK let' see... I've done what you are suggesting and I come up with the f/5.6 + .5 which is exactly what I got in my last image. My images are done in half stops, measured exactly as you describe and if you move to the image marked as f/11 + .5 (2 stops lighter) that is not even close to 18% gray. Perhaps you can perform this test and post the results.


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Feb 07, 2007 12:33 |  #11

f/5.6 to f/11 is 2 stops darker, not lighter. You gotta go the other way to f/2.8.


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Feb 07, 2007 12:36 as a reply to  @ cdifoto's post |  #12

More light on the background makes it lighter. Less light makes it darker. If more light hits the background then the exposure for the background needs to be a higher number. This is not the taking exposure, just the measured exposure for the background. In my images, the apertures shown and representing the background exposure and not the taking aperture of the shot. The taking aperture is not changing so the only thing that can allow for lighter exposure on the background is more light, which gives you a smaller aperture reading on your light meter. No?


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Feb 07, 2007 12:40 |  #13

TMR Design wrote in post #2670152 (external link)
More light on the background makes it lighter. Less light makes it darker. If more light hits the background then the exposure for the background needs to be a higher number. This is not the taking exposure, just the measured exposure for the background. The taking aperture is not changing so the only thing that can allow for lighter exposure on the background is more light, which gives you a smaller aperture reading on your light meter. No?

What I'm saying is just the starting point so you can get your background set up, then you can adjust your main & fill to use the aperture needed for the background. My assumption is that you don't have your other lights set up yet. If you do have your other lights set up, then just adjust your background light until proper exposure of that light only on the background gives you the aperture needed for the other lights. That's your base ie black. After you did that then you can work your way up to a brighter background by simply adjusting that light in increments via the power slider. They're marked in steps as I've already said.

Basically all you need to do is set your background light somewhere happy that lets you brighten it more (example lowest power setting) after getting your "base" exposure. Only for the purposes of this annoying little experiment that really has no value in the real world since most people set the background how they want, not caring about this half stop in between nonsense.

I'm not going to reply anymore because this is getting absurd. No offense to you.


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Feb 07, 2007 12:49 |  #14

cdi-ink.com wrote in post #2670171 (external link)
I'm not going to reply anymore because this is getting absurd. No offense to you.

No problem and no offense taken. I thought that the exchange of ideas and helping others is what we did here, and what is absurb or nonsensical is a purely subjective thing, but I respect your opinion.


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Feb 07, 2007 13:05 |  #15

jl_moped wrote in post #2668343 (external link)
I am going to take a wild guess at Scott's challenge. First set up the main light, the model and with the background at 18% gray. Then without changing the power of the main light, progressively move the background 1 stop further back until max black.

More difficult to do it this way, and you need a reaaaallllly big studio! :lol:

If the b/g was 5.6' from the light source, it would have to be 8' away for -1EV, or 11' away for -2EV and 14' away for -2.5EV


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Portrait Lighting & Controlling Light : Barn Doors - Part II
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