5D vs 30D or their replacements

hi all,new here my screename says it all, am looking to do some nudes, currently have a 20D with kit lens, I find that depth of field is an issue, am wanting more depth of field, am not trying for the artsy look but more the clarity and detail are what I'm looking for, from what I gather the FF sensor is not as good for such, to be frank I'm looking for a "shake and bake" answer should I go with FF or cropped sensor what lens and speed and aperture indoors with adequate lighting, yes I know its an annoying question, essentially how do you educate someone in an art when they have no talent, so the bottom line what gear will suit me best in my situation 30D or 5D, and any other suggestion lens etc

To get depth of field, you should be focusing on glass first, and not bodies. You want "fast glass", or lenses with wide apertures (numerically lower apertures). There are plenty of fast primes to choose from, with the 50 1.4, 85 1.8, or 135 2.0 being excellent examples. If you are looking at zooms, you need to be focusing on f/2.8 zooms (which will be expensive).

You budget will drive what direction you go. If you are on a budget, a 30D with some fast primes make a great kit, while still being very economical. A 30D with 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 will run you about $1800. If you have a higher budget, a 5D with some primes or zooms turns in some incredible results, but you must be willing to pay alot more to get it. A 5D with 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 will run you about $3300.

For what you're wanting, your 20D is more than adequate. Get a sharp lens like the 50 f1.4 or the 85 f1.8 and you'll be set.

Mark

A lot of the guys on the G&N forum seem to use the 24-70L.

I am going to join the choir. You should turn your attention to the lens. You aren't going to get more depth of field, but you can boost sharpness.

For maximum sharpness, primes. However, if you want the flexibility of a zoom, then you want the 17-55mm. Or, if you have space to shoot (getting at least 10 to 15 feet from your model) the 70-200 lenses are top notch.

BigBlueDodge wrote in post #2693923
To get depth of field, ...You want "fast glass", or lenses with wide apertures (numerically lower apertures).

??????

tzalman wrote in post #2694092
??????

me too!!?!

As for the OP's question... get a 5D and an 85L

mogearnotalent wrote in post #2693907
......currently have a 20D with kit lens, I find that depth of field is an issue, am wanting more depth of field, am not trying for the artsy look but more the clarity and detail are what I'm looking for........

Okay, I think we have a communication problem. MogearNotalent says he wants MORE depth of field, not less. He says he is shooting nudes, so he wants to focus on his model's toes and get her nose in focus, too.

Mogear, you should have everything you need in a 20D body. Depth of field is a function of lens aperature. To get a bigger/longer/greater depth of field, you need a smaller aperature, say f/16 or higher. If you are doing that, you also need more light.

So this isn't a question of camera body, but lenses and light. Any lens will have the capability of a small aperature. Most good Canon lenses will go to at leat f/22, and some as small as f/32. To get the absolute best sharpness, you should consider any of the "L" series lenses. They are made to a higher standard and will give you a sharper image, all other things being equal. As for light, maybe you should invest in some good studio lights. People here on the forum like the Alien Bees brand quite a bit. They sell a two light kit for a reasonable price. I am partial to Elinchrom, myself. Elinchrom also has a couple of "beginner/entry" level sets that start around $1,000.00 USD.

So, get out there and shoot. We'll all channel into the G/N section to see your work.

Good luck.

MarKap77 wrote in post #2694753
Okay, I think we have a communication problem. MogearNotalent says he wants MORE depth of field, not less. He says he is shooting nudes, so he wants to focus on his model's toes and get her nose in focus, too.

Very good, finally someone noticed.

Background blur is a result of 5 factors
focal length (short: little blur -> long: much blur), aperture (small->large), distance to subject (close->far) distance of subject to background (close->far), sensor size (small like P&S: little blur -> large like 5D: much blur, 30D a bit less than 5D).

So if you want to get as much of your model in focus then
- use a short focal length (28 )
- use a small aperture (f/11)
- rather use a camera with a small sensor (your 20D)
- place yourself at some distance to your friends
- place your friends close to the background

If that is not possible, learn to live with the background blur or just continue to use your P&S for those shots where you want to have everything sharp.

Other than that, there is nothing wrong with getting a moderately fast prime that will allow you to use a large aperture if you need the light and also stop it down. I assume that the image quality of, say a 28/2.8 stopped down to f/8 will be significantly better than that of the 18-55 kit lens @ f/8. While the really fast lenses (e.g. 28/1.8 or Sigma 30/1.4 ) might be more of a compromise to get that high speed, the 'average' primes should do a pretty good job there.

Hope that helps.

Best regards,
Andy

liza wrote in post #2693987
A lot of the guys on the G&N forum seem to use the 24-70L.

What are YOU doing in that area?!?! Or is that "just what you hear"....

LOL

[QUOTE=Andythaler;2694​767]Very good, finally someone noticed.

Background blur is a result of 5 factors
focal length (short: little blur -> long: much blur), aperture (small->large), distance to subject (close->far) distance of subject to background (close->far), sensor size (small like P&S: little blur -> large like 5D: much blur, 30D a bit less than 5D).

So if you want to get as much of your model in focus then
- use a short focal length (28 )
- use a small aperture (f/11)
- rather use a camera with a small sensor (your 20D)
- place yourself at some distance to your friends
- place your friends close to the background

If that is not possible, learn to live with the background blur or just continue to use your P&S for those shots where you want to have everything sharp.

[/quote

Which brings up the point, I've spent money on a DSLR ,yet I notice my P&S has sometimes sharper photos with better Depth of Field and how can this be that I spend more money and get poorer results, and why are DSLRs superior to Point and Shoots if the DOF is an issue or is it that I can achieve the same effect by getting more experience and better lenses?

mogearnotalent wrote in post #2698603
Which brings up the point, I've spent money on a DSLR ,yet I notice my P&S has sometimes sharper photos with better Depth of Field and how can this be that I spend more money and get poorer results, and why are DSLRs superior to Point and Shoots if the DOF is an issue or is it that I can achieve the same effect by getting more experience and better lenses?

Your point and shoot had a tiny aperture compared to a DSLR. It also processes the file for maximum sharpness in the camera. With a P&S you cede most of the control of the image to the camera. With a DSLR and lens combination, you have control, should you choose to take it.

DSLR's provide larger sensors, which equals lower noise and higher ISO, interchangeable lenses so you can pick the best lens for the subject matter, and those lenses can have large apertures so you can get shallow depth of field as to isolate your subject from a distracting background and to give you more creative control over the image. DSLR's have a learning curve and to use one well, you need to learn the basics of photography and exposure.

Mark

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #2698632
Your point and shoot had a tiny aperture compared to a DSLR. It also processes the file for maximum sharpness in the camera. With a P&S you cede most of the control of the image to the camera. With a DSLR and lens combination, you have control, should you choose to take it.

DSLR's provide larger sensors, which equals lower noise and higher ISO, interchangeable lenses so you can pick the best lens for the subject matter, and those lenses can have large apertures so you can get shallow depth of field as to isolate your subject from a distracting background and to give you more creative control over the image. DSLR's have a learning curve and to use one well, you need to learn the basics of photography and exposure.

Mark

so essentialy I can duplicate the effect with the right equipment and skill, so does it even matter if I buy a cropped sensor camera or a full frame, will more resolution help me in anyway? am I a victim of more megapixels=better?

mogearnotalent wrote in post #2698771
so essentialy I can duplicate the effect with the right equipment and skill, so does it even matter if I buy a cropped sensor camera or a full frame, will more resolution help me in anyway? am I a victim of more megapixels=better?

More pixels will no make an out of focus part of your image come into focus.

The size of the sensor is almost neutral to depth of field. For example, if you use a 50 mm lens on an EF-S camera and an 80 mm lens on a full frame camera you will get the same image, but if you shoot both at f/8 you will have slightly more depth of field in the EF-S image. However, because the full frame uses a longer lens and does not have to be enlarged as much for any given size print, you can stop down the full frame camera to a smaller aperture before diffraction caused by the apertures causes too much softness in the image. There will still be a slightly more depth of field with the smaller format, but it is not very significant. However, shutter speed may become more of an issue if you are using a smaller aperture on full frame, but this again is can be partly offset by there being less noise at higher ISO.

The sensor size is relatively neutral when you want more depth of field.

Some people choose large format because they want less depth of field. This is because most lenses cannot be opened up wide enough on a small format sensor to give as little depth of field that a similar lens would on full frame.